Post by Zoetrooper on Jul 6, 2015 17:38:48 GMT -8
(( Minutes will have to wait for awhile but here is the full transcript of the conversation ))
Maesluan Zejaire: So brief introduction: it has come to my attention, and from what I understand a lot of people's attention, that there have been general concerns or issues that have popped up since a little before Heavensward coming out. I'm going to open with four issues I know of, and provide a couple of suggestions on how to solve it, but would love input for htem as well. After that, we will open it up for others to bring up their concerns. Try to keep it general, but if you need to have a concern about a
Maesluan Zejaire: specific person or group, try to make it as unaccusatory as possible
Maesluan Zejaire: There will be minutes to review. I'll be making notes, but it is my understanding Zach is the primary secretary of this meeting. If you have an issue you want in private, please bring it to the attention of an officer or myself.
Maesluan Zejaire: Ah, yes, please shut off all but /tells and /say.
Maesluan Zejaire: Anyone besides Illith miss my introduction?
Maesluan Zejaire: I will take that as a no. Okay, starting off
Maesluan Zejaire: The first bit is a bit of common sense, but I figure it's a good reminder to say. I have a full understanding that Arcanum is very close and enjoys picking on each other. This, honestly, is a lot of fun and I do not want that to stop. That being said, if someone does feel uncomfortable/insulted with the topic going on, I want them to have the ability to speak up and that be the end of the conversation. A while ago, we lost someone over this (and insult, specifically), and I feel it should also
Maesluan Zejaire: include topics-- sexual, political, punny-- and that if someone does not appreciate the conversation in the linkshell, they should not feel intimidated to speak up. If you are asked to stop, do not be insulted either by the request (assuming they're polite about it), and cease. People have their own things they're comfortable with, and not everyone is willing to go as far as the next person.
Kilandara Zomerana: Can I mention something about that point?
Maesluan Zejaire: Hm?
Kilandara Zomerana: We have as many non confrontational and anxious people as we do boisterous or confident individuals. Many times, most insults are never confronted not because the person feels intimidated. At least, I doubt it, but because they just don't want to start something.
Zachree Rowlaux: I would like to point out right quick that there was another person I can think of that left due to feeling targetted and uncomfortable due to conversation.
Maesluan Zejaire: Very true, I'm one such person. I didn't say anything when I was more recently because I was afraid of stepping on toes.
Maesluan Zejaire: Zach?
Kilandara Zomerana: Most of the time, if I say or do something wrong to someone like this, I'm either just flat out not told or blown off.
Illith Lith: I agree with Kil.
Illith Lith: On that note.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on, we'll come back to that note
Latrans Adustus: Aaaactually
Latrans Adustus: Quick question.
Maesluan Zejaire: hm?
Latrans Adustus: You mentioned several topics (sexual. political, punny) which can be problematic...
Latrans Adustus: Are, uh... Are people actually bothered by puns?
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes. But we'll come back to that
Latrans Adustus: ...
Latrans Adustus: Alrighty.
Maesluan Zejaire: First, Zach wanted to say something. There is something I want to talk about specifically about puns
Maesluan Zejaire: Nvm
Maesluan Zejaire: Zach just wanted to make sure we knew it wasn't an isolated incident
Latrans Adustus: So... they won't be tolerated? There'll be retrubution?
Latrans Adustus: pun...ishment?
Maesluan Zejaire: Ok, since the pun argument is short, I'll explain. We don't have issues with puns, just excessiveness
Maesluan Zejaire: Or repetitiveness.
Maesluan Zejaire: Puns are fine, but if you tend to get carried away and someone says something, please stop
Maesluan Zejaire: Same goes with sexual things. We poke a lot of fun about, say, Nix's microscopic balls
Maesluan Zejaire: But if someone gets uncomfortable from, for example, Maes stalking someone, then speak up and it shall cease.
Maesluan Zejaire: And the topics can stretch to a lot of things.
Kilandara Zomerana: I want to state that I am an excessive punster, but for the life of me I cannot understand to any capacity why puns are bad. I get the excessive or repetitive part, but even then, I just want to go on record that puns are arguably the most non offensive thing you can say that's more about the language. I stop, usually, when asked, but I just want to point out that it's weird to me to be asked to stop.
Illith Lith: Its the excessiveness.
Maesluan Zejaire: Agreed, but it can make people uncomfortable or annoyed.
Raurimont Nix: I think puns are the least of anyones worries, and Maes was just trying to be as throough as possible, so lets not get hung up on the small deal and ignore the rest.
Maesluan Zejaire: And as such, the simple point is that if someone isn't okay with the topic, to simply stop or move it to a private chat
Raurimont Nix: thorough*
Azerill Reinhart: ((puns aren't bad bad{like BAD BOY, bad} but they can be bad as in [GROAN!] bad))
Illith Lith: A couple or so isn't a huge issue. But going on a tirade with multiple people is annoying. Sure, you can ignore it. Or try. I'd have to turn off the LS more often than not if that was the case at times.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thank you, Nix, that is exactly it
Maesluan Zejaire: Back to the issue Kil and ILlith brought up
Kilandara Zomerana: My point is more that if five or six people are having fun, why stop for one annoyed person? Especially when it's harmless.
Latrans Adustus: Groan bad is good bad.
Illith Lith: Well, then go with it.
Zachree Rowlaux: I do believe this topic is more about respecting your fellow FC mate, not puns or the like.
Azerill Reinhart: ^
Raurimont Nix: The lack of simple understanding of the topic is rather concerning but not surprising.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm disagreeing about the fact that it's a public LS with people not in our FC and it's non offensive fun.
Maesluan Zejaire: Because we're a family, Kil. We respect each other and the linkshell is for everyone. If you want to continue it when someone is bothered, feel free to bring it to another forum.
Maesluan Zejaire: Moving on.
Maesluan Zejaire: Kil and Illith brought up people being uncomfortable about speaking up. I am included in this group, in fact that's why I am holding this meeting. Does anyone have any suggestions around this? Maybe talking to an officer about it?
Kilandara Zomerana: If someone doesn't want to speak up the likely people they will speak up to are people who are close to them. If it was as easy as speaking up, they'd do it. But that causes confrontation.
Illith Lith: I rarely ever hear anything personally; even as the "HR" Officer.
Cibus Alimento: In essence, no matter FC position we should all feel as equals.
Azerill Reinhart: How about Haveing a representative, someone that can take the complaint and pass it on with no names attached?
Illith Lith: I hear it from other officers; if that.
Xifang Crimson: That seems like a good idea. Talk to an officer if you can, for sure. Someone with authority you feel comfortable with
Raurimont Nix: I think the officers need to be more stern. I myself left my position, for several reasons, one being that I found myself being restrained when I saw fit to stop people. Instead I was not allowed to act in the interest of not making anyone feel bad in the slightest despite their actions potentially damaging the experience of several.
Latrans Adustus: If you want something with no names attached, set up an anonymous report tumblr that only the officers have access to.
Azerill Reinhart: I mean someone who is not and IG officer, some one new.....
Latrans Adustus: Ask Xi about it. It works.
Kilandara Zomerana: Well, to be frank, you're not going to fix a psychological issue.
Maesluan Zejaire: I don't think only one person should be appointed.
Illith Lith: I see Nix's point.
Kilandara Zomerana: Barring something like what Lat said.
Illith Lith: I have also thought about just giving up officer position for something similiar.
Maesluan Zejaire: That makes it difficult to talk to the individual if THEY are the one you're upset about. Remember, no one is perfect. Everyone's going to irritate someone along the line.
Xifang Crimson: That's true. I used to run an anonymous tumblr forum for people to put complaints and comments in
Azerill Reinhart: I do like that Idea.
Raurimont Nix: All officers should be seen as approachable, and all officers should be able and willing to handle any situation presented. You're here to look over your members, not to tunnel vision into a 'role'
Xifang Crimson: For the FC I was an officer of in the way back. I could help with that again or you guys could make a far better one I bet
Illith Lith: To put it bluntly; this is a small company. If you can't talk to the officers about your issues, then what can you do? And if you do; and things happen, well. How can anyone do anything if they don't know about it?
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, but we're talking basic psychology here. If I have no desire to get into any confrontation and keep the status quo, I just flat out won't say something. I mean, this is how most introverts are.
Maesluan Zejaire: I don't have any issues with the tumblr idea, except that the issue may be made public. And if it's something specific...
Maesluan Zejaire: So talking to someone uninvolved isn't your solution. Do you have one, Kil?
Xifang Crimson: I think the anonymous comment box I made before could be good for exactly that reason
Illith Lith: Then there is no point bringing it up if they can't bother to spit out what the problem is. If they want to bring it to another member they are more comfortable with, then they can bring it to an officer, then so be. This is what can incite a lot of needless drama.
Kilandara Zomerana: Setting up a system where we understand that this is just going to happen, and setting up something like the comment box to curb the behavior.
Kilandara Zomerana: Passive aggressiveness is going to happen.
Kilandara Zomerana: We cannot control that.
Illith Lith: Its not like its going to take a rocket scientist to pinpoint who it is having the issue with the small company.
Kilandara Zomerana: We can deal with how we respond.
Maesluan Zejaire: So, a mixture of an anonymous tumblr and talking to the officers? Whichever the individual feels comfortable with?
Kilandara Zomerana: AND figuring out a way to respond when they inevitably do neither.
Xifang Crimson: The best thing is that everyone feel like they have SOME venue for dealing with this other than running away or just wallowing in their discomfort. That's distinctly a not fun experience in a game we play for fun
Kilandara Zomerana: If we had a cure for passive aggressiveness, the world would be an incredibly different place.
Zachree Rowlaux: On what Nix said, I have no issues with officers talking to people one on one about issues present in the FC. What I did not want to see is public repremanding. Which is something that was frequently done at the time. Being an officer such things should be taken private
Kilandara Zomerana: All we can do is provide avenues.
Maesluan Zejaire: Leaving two options is the best we can, stewing on it after that is their own fault. We can only do so much.
Latrans Adustus: Well, Kil, maybe SOME PEOPLE *do* have a cure. Just saying.
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes, if you're going to talk to an officer, do it in private
Latrans Adustus: (that was... I'm, uh, not being serious there)
Maesluan Zejaire: And that's also my concern about the anonymous box. Is the notes public? I've not dealt with sucha thing before.
Kilandara Zomerana: To mention that Maes, I just want to say that we shouldn't blame a victim. If they feel genuinely insulted for a reason they don't want to share, I'd rather the people in charge realize that the person did have reasons to not do it.
Latrans Adustus: Notes could be private, onlly viewable by people who maintain the tumblr
Maesluan Zejaire: No, I'm not saying blame the victim, but we can't have a solution if we don't know there's a problem.
Kilandara Zomerana: We can just be ready for that scenario, is all I'm saying
Maesluan Zejaire: Anyone here know enough about tumblr and is willing to start up such a thing?
Xifang Crimson: It's really really easy. It doesn't have to be me. XD But if you want it to be, I can
Zachree Rowlaux: I've always stated that I am open to discussing anything with any member but it really feels as though people avoid me. They don't bring anything up to me until it is either too late or they have withdrawn themselves physically or emotionally from the company.,
Zeruda Ironheart: I can offer a bit of insight into that.
Zeruda Ironheart: At least from my perspective.
Maesluan Zejaire: Zeruda?
Xifang Crimson: I bet, Zach, that people feel like if they go to you first that it's a BIG DEAL and they want to solve it themselves first... then they wait too long
Raurimont Nix: I think the point that needs to be made here is that officers need to be more open to members, and members need to feel more comfortable talking to officers if there is a problem
Maesluan Zejaire: Give a moment for Zeruda to speak. I do want to comment on what was just said.
Zeruda Ironheart: For me personally, I try not to bring something to the officers unless it's absolutely necessary, as I feel with as much as they always seem to have alot of IRL stuff to deal with as well as wanting to actually play the game
Zeruda Ironheart: I feel like I would be burdening and annoying them
Raurimont Nix: You would not be. They are there to help and during my time I was more than willing to step aside from my current task if someone expressed a need.
Raurimont Nix: They should all be so willing.
Zachree Rowlaux: That's why were here.
Maesluan Zejaire: This discussion is an attempt to help that be realized
Raurimont Nix: If they are not, please make this known to another officer so they may speak within themselves
Illith Lith: Just checkd back on this. I agree with Zach. Also Kudos on Zeruda.
Megumi Firefists: I don't know if its worth mentioning, but when I was new(er) here, I was intimidated as hell by the "officers". For the life of me, I cannot think of why now.
Illith Lith: And yes, if its serious I would step out and do the talking. But usually, as I said, and same thing Zach has made note, we kinda only hear about it way later or whatever.
Zachree Rowlaux: Please please please come to me if you have something on your mind that needs to be discussed. If anything it may stop me from feeling lonely in game.
I'll be all "Someone is talking to me!"
Megumi Firefists: But I was hesitant to speak to anyone.
Kilandara Zomerana: To give a genuine counterpoint, there's no black and white here. Some people just don't like imposing. Ever. Not without a large level of trust or a long time of knowing someone.
Maesluan Zejaire: I know it's hard to convince you, but if you have an issue that you think is smaller than a officer's problem but big enough to cause a rift between you and another member, choose to talk to them instead.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on people.
Maesluan Zejaire: Too much text at once makes it jumbled
Maesluan Zejaire: Excluding Zach, I'm going to ask that you mention you have a point you want to be made, that way we are taking time to address people's opinions and not repeating things over again.
Raurimont Nix: Kil that is not what is being addressed. If someone doesnt want to talk thats fine. We are addressing the issue of people not feeling like they are able to have a safe place or person to speak with
Illith Lith: ^
Maesluan Zejaire: As Nix said.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, I'm saying some people will just never have a safe place or person.
Kilandara Zomerana: Because that's their personality.
Thel Dawnbreaker: I do have something on note regarding not bringing stuff to officers since you want honestity here.
Kilandara Zomerana: And there's nothing wrong with that.
Maesluan Zejaire: And this isn't a personal attack on you, Kil. The issue is that in such a situation there is nothing we, as people separated by the internet, cannot predict that.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thel?
Maesluan Zejaire: And honesty is the point here.
Thel Dawnbreaker: It all comes down to people not wanting to start drama and while I have no intent to berate anyone but I get the impression that Zach and Illith seem to be a tad sensitive to stuff from my perspective and I respect both of them enough to be honest and state this. People are afraid to approach our stewards out of fear they will take a minor issue and make it a huge thing.
Maesluan Zejaire: That's why I'm hoping we recognize that there is more than just Illith and Zach. We also have you or Cibus or Faey.
Illith Lith: I'm very opinionated; lol.
Thel Dawnbreaker: Or at least that's where I stand and feel others might have a similar view
Raurimont Nix: This was part of what I meant earlier, Thel is accurate. I was unable to act due to the desire to 'not cause drama'
Maesluan Zejaire: And I understand that there are people who are sensitive and people who are trying to avoid drama. THe hope here is that the officer that is talked to is one who can be impartial.
Maesluan Zejaire: Which, admittedly, is a difficult task.
Illith Lith: Well that is the issue on our end; I only hear from Cibus mostly when there are issues then try to deal with them if I can.
Kilandara Zomerana: I feel there's an ivory tower issue here.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on Kil, we'll get there
Kilandara Zomerana: This is unrelated.
Maesluan Zejaire: We'll get to that point then
Maesluan Zejaire: if you feel it's not important but want to say it anyway, feel free to send it to me as a tell
Zachree Rowlaux: I try to get in touch with people as much as I can, and talk to people willing. There are a few individuals I attempt to give some space because they seem to want to be alone, but I try to be as inclusive OOCly as I can. Whatever 'sensitiveness' I might be having I think is poorly perceived.
Kilandara Zomerana: Actually, I made that wrong. The ivory tower issue IS related to what is being said. The point I wanted to make is not.
Maesluan Zejaire: Go ahead Kil, then.
Illith Lith: I am just more "blunt". Unless you can pinpoint the specifics; then I have nothing else to say to you.
Maesluan Zejaire: The point here is to not get angry, Illith. In fact, if I'm being honest, there's a part of one of my second points being brought about here. For now, let Kil speak. And PLEASE not that you have something to say before we speak.
Maesluan Zejaire: So we can let people take turns.
Kilandara Zomerana: An ivory tower issue is when you have a very clear distinction of either goals or ranks, kinda a class system. I feel that, for a large amount of things, there is a clear ivory tower between the stewards, officers, and members. I personally have said many times that Faey, Cibus, and Thel are all approachable, but to give it a bit more of a definition, I feel that Zach and Illith (and a lesser extent) and Nix were in an ivory tower situation not out of any form of malice or wrongdoing.
Kilandara Zomerana: Thel and Faey are on during prime time daily, and Cibus can be as well. Nix, Illith, and Zach are virtually all graveyard shift or odd hours.
Kilandara Zomerana: This creates an ivory tower simply by virtue.
Maesluan Zejaire: And that's a part of something I said earlier
Raurimont Nix: True enough, and this talk is intended to quell those issues as best we can, because the effects of which are becoming troublesome. This is a meeting to open communication, to reduce these perceptions.
Xifang Crimson: ((Guys. I'm really really sorry to break this up when there are some important issues at play here. But I have to work at 3 am and really need to go to bed. If you want me to do the tumblr thing, lemme know! And if this discussion could be put up on the website in some manner, that'd be lovely. I'd be happy to know what issues there are, how to help and such))
Maesluan Zejaire: I have a full understanding that not every officer is approachable to everyone.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, but this has nothing to do with approachability or the like, it's simply that if we communicate or say something, we may not be able to properly hours to days of context.
Maesluan Zejaire: ((Go ahead, Xi, we'll send notes later, okay?))
Maesluan Zejaire: That's a part of being approachable.
Xifang Crimson: ((OK. Sorry to join and run like this.))
Maesluan Zejaire: ((You're fine))
Maesluan Zejaire: It's different fro everyone.
Kilandara Zomerana: See, I disagree. Zach is one of the most approachable and huggable people I know, and someone who I have no problem talking to.
Maesluan Zejaire: Different variations of appraoch, and this is beside the issue. While you say that Zach isn't available all the times when you feel you need to approach an officer, there is others you can.
Kilandara Zomerana: If Zach isn't able to be around for the event, or simply cannot have the given context without flat out being given notes, there is a large amount of a gulf by existence.
Maesluan Zejaire: We have 5 officers who are on varying hours, if you cannot approach one, the hope is that you can approach another.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, but the officers have different responsibilities and it goes in contrast with what Zach (or Illith or Nix) may want. If I approach Thel for a behavioral thing, he's well within his rights to talk about it with the other two, or kick it up.
Kilandara Zomerana: And if Thel's running an event or busy, it's not as simple.
Maesluan Zejaire: We do have skype, you know
Illith Lith: I was about to say that.
Kilandara Zomerana: A public place, and that isn't where things happen.
Illith Lith: Most people have it; if it is a major issues its not hard to find us.
Illith Lith: Even if we are not on.
Raurimont Nix: This is all true, but we want people to know that just because the currently available officer isnt the one theyre used to, it doesnt mean they should talk to them. We are all willing to help. I understand the level of comfort comes with familiarity, IE people on at the same times normally, but all officers are here and people need to make note of that.
Maesluan Zejaire: I don't know about you, but I have a majority of the arc officers' accounts to send a message individually to them.
Illith Lith: Its how I found out from other issues via the other Officers.
Maesluan Zejaire: I imagine that the officers would not be against giving it out, at least hte ones you feel you're more comfortable talking to.
Raurimont Nix: From the Arcanum skype group you can select "members", and it will list all inside the chat. You can use this trick to speak to individuals
Maesluan Zejaire: This also would be a forum that would allow people to note things verbatum.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right but, let's say I have an issue with Thel. Zach and Illith aren't around, Cibus is. I tell Cibus. Cibus then has to talk to stewards.
Illith Lith: AND if you are not part of the group, we can add you.
Kilandara Zomerana: And suddenly, we have a bad game of telephone.
Kilandara Zomerana: I could talk to Zach or Illith, who may be asleep or working.
Kilandara Zomerana: Cibus has no authority over Thel.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thel should have no authority over Cibus either...
Kilandara Zomerana: Correct.
Raurimont Nix: This being said, I would also note that we have grown as an FC, where we used to all be in direct contact as a small tight knit group we have let this connection fall off as we have grown multiple times our starting size.
Kilandara Zomerana: So I either go to Cibus, who then begins the part of telephone (and Zach may feel like we should have gone to him), and there's a lot of tails that may be stepped on.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on Kil.
Maesluan Zejaire: The point in going to an officer isn't to get them reprimanded. We go to an officer because they are the best options, and choose to go to any other officer if you have an issue with another. Skype, the forum, and in game.
Maesluan Zejaire: We'll try to organize it so that everyone can reach out to the officers in all three forums, but that'll just take effort
Maesluan Zejaire: Nix?
Raurimont Nix: That being said, THE FORUM IS TOTALLY LEGITIMATE AS AN OPTION. Leave a post and we will get back to you!
Cibus Alimento: The message will always be there and we can get to it when we can
Latrans Adustus: Forums are great.
Maesluan Zejaire: Let me ask you this, Kil, in a single sentence what is the problem you see here?
Kilandara Zomerana: We're trying to solve a problem that cannot be solved instead of finding ways to deal with the inevitable outcome.
Kilandara Zomerana: And we're interpreting it as a problem that needs fixing.
Raurimont Nix: People do not use it enough, there are personal tells, and people can and SHOULD use it!
Kilandara Zomerana: More importantly, we're also ignoring a lot of given or outside circumstances that factor in
Maesluan Zejaire: No? My problem I'm trying to solve is to provide outlets for people who need to talk indirectly about a problem that has come up.
Kilandara Zomerana: Can I expand on this with an example to explain it?
Maesluan Zejaire: Anything beyond that is an issue being brought up by outside forces.
Maesluan Zejaire: No. NOt at this point. So far, the two issues you've brought up were the issues that were not solveable.
Maesluan Zejaire: ANd we seriously need to move on
Kilandara Zomerana: Fine. But I just want to state I am frustrated.
Zachree Rowlaux: I'm really not comfortable with the concept of 'officer favourites'. I WANT to talk to you. I cannot stress that enough. I want to help you through whatever issues you might be having. Please approach me at any time, if you don't know me well enough I invite you to get to know me. Simple as that.
Raurimont Nix: KILANDARA! This is a forum to discuss issues within the company and thus far you have provided some insight, but please refrain from creating arguments where this is supposed to be a place of aiding others. Yes there are developments within the company to be made. Please refrain from holding back conversations with a single point, we have had a majority of input from you so far being objection to Maes while constructive notes have been few and far between.
Maesluan Zejaire: I've said what I can. If you have a problem and are unwilling to speak up to the person for fear of eggshells, talk to an officer. Even if it IS an officer, we have four tohers and you can contact them via skype or the forum or in game.
Kilandara Zomerana: I don't have a single problem with a person. At all.
Kilandara Zomerana: I never have.
Kilandara Zomerana: And I'm one of the most vocal people in this FC. I bitch at the drop of a hat.
Azerill Reinhart: "Let it go!"
Maesluan Zejaire: Beside the point. Moving on.
Maesluan Zejaire: So, summarize: the point of this is that if you have an issue do not be afraid to speak up. If you are uncomfortable with it, go to an officer by whatever means provided. Beyond that, we cannot solve a problem we do not know exists.
Maesluan Zejaire: Anyone confused?
Maesluan Zejaire: Also, a small suggestion to the officers. Don't do it obsessively, but if you have a few minutes to listen to an issue, say something in the linkshell similar to "Everything alright? Anything I need to know about?"
Maesluan Zejaire: this way people who aren't here, people who are new, or people who need a small reminder know that there is an officer on who will listen.
Zeruda Ironheart: I have a semi-related suggestion.
Maesluan Zejaire: This idea seems to be have been rejected, when the officers finish talking someone will post a finalized version.
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes Zeruda?
Zeruda Ironheart: If one doesn't exist already, maybe a forum post giving the names and specific positions of the officers in the FC, just so there is a point of reference in case anyone forgets or doesn't know.
Maesluan Zejaire: I THINK there is one already, but if there isn't can we get one Zach?
Raurimont Nix: Ill make that now
Maesluan Zejaire: Thank you Nix
Zachree Rowlaux: Well. There is an 'officer' section on the forums. Yes. Our names are visible and you can PM us directly.
Latrans Adustus: ((shit. cats are crazy brb))
Zachree Rowlaux: At the bottom of home page actually.
Maesluan Zejaire: Okay, next point. This one is small and may just be my personal opinion/position: if you do catch yourself getting into an argument in mumble, skype, or the linkshell (especially if someone brings it up) and you feel it needs to be addressed with the individual, PLEASE move it to a private place. Arguments can have a negative light on people in the arguments andw e do not need to ahve that spread about to uninvolved people. *I* am at fault for this too, as I have argued with Azerill in the links
Maesluan Zejaire: *linkshell
Maesluan Zejaire: This is similar to talking to an officer in private if you have a complaint
Maesluan Zejaire: Any questions?
Raurimont Nix: Zach is correct, at the bottom of the homepage is a list and direct message hyperlinks to all officers.
Maesluan Zejaire: ((Thank you Zach, Nix))
Zeruda Ironheart: My bad, I never knew that was there. My bookmark goes right to the forums.
Raurimont Nix: The arc site can be found inside the FC message, and is here as well for those who would wish to bookmark it if you havent.
Raurimont Nix: arcanumcompany.boards.net/
Maesluan Zejaire: Okay, no complaints about that point
Maesluan Zejaire: Okaayyy, the big one. Cliques/people being left out/assistance in item gathering. Be prepared. Give me a fw moments to make a long post
Maesluan Zejaire: I have heard from several sources that people have had issues getting together with other members in doing dungeons/loot runs and so on. While we're open in talking on the linkshell, it has become evident that some of us are having a harder time getting a group together. Cliques are going to happen. Kil pointed out hours bieng one part, generally who the person is is another part. I will not look to stop that, but we do need to all look and try to help others. I especially am hoping that we look
Maesluan Zejaire: to help with first time runners, largely the ones who haven't even gotten to the HW content. ((still talking))
Maesluan Zejaire: People who are doing farms also need to be aware that since that won't necessarily benefit everyone and can be a bit tedious for those with no benefits, it goes probably on the lowest scale of importance. Law farms being the exception in this point, I guess. (still talking)
Maesluan Zejaire: Also, people need to understand that we do not always want to run dungeons. Sometimes we're rping, sometimes we're just relaxing and enjoying being social. You cannot force people to party, but we should all try to make more of an effort to be available.
Maesluan Zejaire: I want to point out that, from my understanding, Nix, Illith, and Thel all have major points they wanted to bring up. Am I right?
Maesluan Zejaire: ((And Maybe Zach?))
Kilandara Zomerana: That has an incredibly easy solution, Maes. Just as a side note.
Thel Dawnbreaker: I have nothing else to say.
Zachree Rowlaux: (( Maybe. I want to see what others have to say first ))
Maesluan Zejaire: Mm, before we address the solution, I want to know the full content of the issue
Maesluan Zejaire: Illith?
Pinny Aerani: I'd like to speak on the issue, but it's more of a personal thing in regards to this.
Maesluan Zejaire: If Illith doesn't have anything immediately, we'll go to you. Otherwise, I'll come to you right after Illith.
Illith Lith: Yeah
Maesluan Zejaire: You have the floor, so to speak, my ex-lalafel steward
Illith Lith: I am still Lalafell.
Illith Lith: >:C
Maesluan Zejaire: In spirit XD Beside the point though.
Illith Lith: No you can go ahead.
Maesluan Zejaire: YOu want us to come back or you don't have anything at the moment.
Illith Lith: I'm attempting to put this together in a not super i'm going to cut you way.
Maesluan Zejaire: *?
Raurimont Nix: Okay then pinny can go.
Maesluan Zejaire: Take your time. Pinny, go ahead.
Raurimont Nix: Personal is fine so long as you are not being overly accusatory or abusive. If the issue is left unresolved for you, please speak to an officer to seek a full handling of the situation.
Maesluan Zejaire: YES! On that note, if there is anything that doesn't come up in the meeting before we close, or if you feel you have an issue that is unresolved at the end of this, please contact someone.
Pinny Aerani: I don't have an issue at all: I just wanted to make sure we all know there's a difference between a clique and people not being in the mood to run dungeons, because I feel sometimes people can confuse the two.
Pinny Aerani: It's "I don't want to run with you" versus "I don't feel like running right now."
Illith Lith: I think a lot of people, as we are talking in mumble about it right now, is that a lot of people won't bother to help people with story things and what not unless it completely benefits them.
Illith Lith: So
Illith Lith: Or how it seems to me*
Illith Lith: So
Maesluan Zejaire: No, no, there are cliques, I'm not saying that in a bad way. Certain people hang out with other certain people more than others. That's not the issue, I have no problem with these groups.
Illith Lith: We have people who are new, may need help with things.
llith Lith: But it seems its a time thing; according to mumble thing.
Pinny Aerani: So, and correct me if I'm wrong...Is the main issue here that we have too many people who don't want to run story content when people ask for help? Two different issues that were brought together?
Pinny Aerani: Because there's cliques and then there's people not wanting to help unless it gives them LAWWWWW
Illith Lith: Its more like very particular to how people tend to stick with people.
Raurimont Nix: I think the issue is that there are times when there is not much show of support for members who are newer to content.
Illith Lith: No i'm talking about story stuff.
Illith Lith: I've seen it. I'm not talking about Law.
Illith Lith: Not even things dealing with Heavensward.
Illith Lith: BUT again, I take into consideration people can do whatever they want. But if you want this "togetherness", especially for newer members or those who feel left out -
Illith Lith: You can't force anyone to do anything; but its being made and brought to the forefront since some people actually, well, are bringing it up.
Maesluan Zejaire: I have to point out, this personally is one i've been told about not one I've faced. People have been struggling to find parties at particular hours. The issue here is to know where it falls in teh category of unwilling to help or just worn out.
Maesluan Zejaire: I myself am unsure how to appraoch this problem, I just have been informed of its existance.
Kilandara Zomerana: Can I address the solution now?
Illith Lith: There are a lot of people on at times.
Raurimont Nix: I would like to address the relationship between cliques and RP when I can.
Illith Lith: But I understand people have things to do/want to do. But the silence I think is the more obnoxious part.
Illith Lith: But thats most from me at the moment to see the other thoughts.
Raurimont Nix: Speak Kil, so long as it is constructive.
Maesluan Zejaire: So, one thing we may do is that if you aren't presently doing something (like in a dungeon or afk), say something whens omeone asks. Like "sorry, I'm just waiting for something." This way we know the question isn't being ingored
Kilandara Zomerana: One moment.
Kilandara Zomerana: This is a very common psychological/behavioral thing known as the bystanders dilemma or bystander effect, I forget which. The common example is when you find someone dying in the middle of a busy street, if you yell "Call the police" nobody will call the police.
Kilandara Zomerana: However, if you point at someone and say "You, call the police" they will either do so, or state the reason tehy cannot.
Kilandara Zomerana: Ergo, standard human nature dictates that if you ask a general request to run a party, most people will assume you're not talking to them (non maliciously) and carry on.
Kilandara Zomerana: However, if you ask a specific perseon, they will either say yes, or give a reason why not.
Kilandara Zomerana: Even ignoring that some people may just have LS off.
Maesluan Zejaire: So then, you're saying another suggestion is the opposite of what I said (not arguing the point, I think it's valid). If you're looking to run something, ask someone specifically who yuo think is available and capable of running what you want? I think that's a good idea, to be honest.
Kilandara Zomerana: Correct. This is an incredibly common and well known psychological situation.
Zachree Rowlaux: It is a good idea.
Raurimont Nix: True, but this is a company, we are supposed to keep an eye out and be willing to help, Step into the situation. We are not passers by, we are a company and should act like one.
Maesluan Zejaire: I think both work to alleviate it, though it isn't a 100% solution.
Kilandara Zomerana: Humans are subject to human nature.
Kilandara Zomerana: This even addresses the item gathering part too.
Maesluan Zejaire: It's a step in the right direction.
Raurimont Nix: Humans are subject to human nature when convenient, and above nature when noting themselves as human.
Raurimont Nix: So the reality is, people need to be proactive.
Kilandara Zomerana: Why?
Kilandara Zomerana: Officers are the only ones here who signed up to do a job.
Maesluan Zejaire: I disagree.
Pinny Aerani: Technically, we all joined up because we wanted a group of people to do stuff with.
Kilandara Zomerana: Correct. Or just company.
Raurimont Nix: Exactly.
Kilandara Zomerana: Or we joined up because of a friend of a friend.
Kilandara Zomerana: Or peer pressure. Or any number of reasons.
Raurimont Nix: If you joined for a title then you missed the point.
Maesluan Zejaire: We all have a job. Officers is more defined and has more responsibility, but once you joined the company you agreed to consider yourself a part of this group. If this entails helping others, speaking up to let others know when you AREN'T available or going the extra mile to try and contact someone, then that's your job.
Raurimont Nix: Exactly what Maes said. Your reasons dont matter after you join, you joined and became a part of the company, one who will help and be helped. If you dont see it that way then you are not a member of Arc, you're just a person with a tag on your head.
Kilandara Zomerana: Please stop speaking in a matter of black and white.
Azerill Reinhart: Most of this is Black and white Kil, how can you expect help when you gove none in return?
Raurimont Nix: This company is not for people to lounge and leech. It's not a matter of black and white, it's what the ideology of the company is. We help each other, we befirend each other, and even if we annoy each other we are still united.
Maesluan Zejaire: That was just being blunt, not black and white per se. The point of the matter is that as a member of arc, you still have a job and an obligation to be a part of this as a whole.
Zachree Rowlaux: Going to interject right quick, I do expect each member to participate and interact with the FC. I do expect even members to create RP storyarcs for the FC to enjoy. Its true the officers have been fielding that and they do a great job, but getting people together for dungeons and RP on a regular basis is not the duty of handful of people. It is the responsibility of all.
Kilandara Zomerana: So we should, say, shame Cibus because he primarily RPs and coordinates RP events but doesn't PVE? Or maybe we have a hardcore PVE'r like Megumi, myself, or Faey who push to get Bismarck/Ravana unlocked to better carry other people.
Raurimont Nix: You are the one speaking of shaming.
Kilandara Zomerana: And may or may not be available to RP or help other people.
Maesluan Zejaire: No, "helping" has many definitions Faey.
Kilandara Zomerana: Kil.
Kilandara Zomerana: No Nix, you do. You speak of responsibility, of people who NEED or SHOULD do these things.
Maesluan Zejaire: sorry, was looking at theword faey and typing it whle reading
Thel Dawnbreaker: Also a good point and I know there are people who do that I need to address when I get a chance but if you have an event idea please bring it to an officer and we will see about getting it setup and out there.
Kilandara Zomerana: And you're making it an all or nothing thing.
Maesluan Zejaire: And you're exasperating the issue.
Zachree Rowlaux: I'm going to ask that personal attacks be scaled back.
Kilandara Zomerana: I'm pointing out that it isn't.
Zachree Rowlaux: To nothing.
Maesluan Zejaire: Sorry, that was my bad too
Raurimont Nix: Yes I spoke of responsibilty and unity. I did not say shame those who dont show it. People are here to do what they do, but if they see themself as one, all alone for themself, they are not part of the FC.
Raurimont Nix: They are a person with a tag, as I said.
Maesluan Zejaire: No, the point was a general statement, not an absolute statement. People have responsibilities in different way, the idea is that we all need to communicate about we can/will/can't/won't do.
Kilandara Zomerana: Nix, no offense intended, but that's a with us or against us speech.
Raurimont Nix: It is.
Kilandara Zomerana: ...that is literally an example of shaming and exclusion.
Raurimont Nix: If you dont see yourself as willing to help others, then I say you need to revise your attitude. This FC is not here to supply you with people to fill your group and help you. It's here for you to join with others, for yourself and them. Give and take.
Zachree Rowlaux: Guys. Stop talking just a second.
Zachree Rowlaux: It's derailing.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thank you.
Zachree Rowlaux: Who's next to make a point, or do you have the floor again, Maes?
Maesluan Zejaire: The idea here is that, particularly in first time runners, fi people could speakup if they are or aren't available, please do. A part, and yes a job, of being in this companyis helping each other. This doesn't necessarily have to be with dungeons, it can be with rping or advice, just try to be participatory. We are not islands, we all need to make sure it comes across that we are not ignoring each other if we are otherwise unable/unwilling to go for a run. Being part of this FC IS your job
Maesluan Zejaire: However you hcoose to do it.
Illith Lith: ((brb Spruce))
Maesluan Zejaire: Does that make sense? Any questions on that?
Maesluan Zejaire: From my understanding here it is simply a matter of trying to, as Kil pointed out, talk to someone directly if you're looking for help, or if a general statement is made and you are not obviously occupied, to speak up and at least say you can/cannot.
Pinny Aerani: At this point I think further commenting on this issue would only cause more arguments, so none here.
Maesluan Zejaire: It's not perfect, but it's a good start.
Thel Dawnbreaker: No guilt trippign either if you ask for help and some simply says no.
Maesluan Zejaire: As Thel said.
Maesluan Zejaire: We all have our own lives. As the fact that not everyone could make it to this meeting shows. SOmetimes we honestly just need a break from the game and still want to talk in the linkshell
Maesluan Zejaire: Say so, do not be ashamed of that, and people need to not resent others if it seems they are continually unavailable. Often it really is timing, even if it seems targetted. From my understanding, no one here absolutely hates another indivudal. If you DO, well... I guess that's a part of problem 1, bring it to an officer adn we'll see what we can do to make it better
Maesluan Zejaire: *They'll see what they can do to make it better.
Zachree Rowlaux: Getting a complaint that the conversation is heading towards the 'accusatory/condecending' vein. Let's reign that in a bit, shall we?
Maesluan Zejaire: Hmmm?
Maesluan Zejaire: A point was brought up, and I'm paraphrasing here, but don't assume someone is going to specifically target someone. If a general statement is made PLEASE DO try to reply. It may seem tedious, but can also result in helping answer future questions from others
Maesluan Zejaire: It can lead to the targetted question. For example: Cibus asks in generall if anyone is up for a Stone Vigil. Azerill pipes in that she's sorry but cannot make it as she's running beastmen. Shy'la pops in later and instead of asking if anyone is available, asks Azerill fi she's still in beastman quests.
Maesluan Zejaire: We're all, hopefully, family here. And I'm sorry if anyone did feel directly attacked, especially if it came from me
Maesluan Zejaire: Is there anyone who wants to chime in with a non-accusatory problem or suggestion on this matter?
Zeruda Ironheart: I feel like we're dwelling on it at this point.
Maesluan Zejaire: I myself have one more point after this, but after that we'll move toopen forums about other issues we have not covered
Raurimont Nix: I agree with Zeruda, it's time to move past this bullet.
Maesluan Zejaire: Very well, last issue on my plate
Maesluan Zejaire: In a very non-pc manner, I am calling this "dick waving." There has been several situations I've come across where a random, idle topic has come up and it quickly turns into an angry "well MY issue is bigger because this" "No MYYY issue is bigger because of this." We're not here to compete. If someone makes a statement that sounds like they're competing, try to not take offense, maybe assume it's an attempt to sympathize (in my issue it usually is, I'm sometimes dumb in phrasing)
Latrans Adustus: (as a minor aside, I'd like to put forth "vag-wagging" as an alternative to "dick waving" )
Maesluan Zejaire: (LOL)
Latrans Adustus: (Not as a replacement, but as an additional option)
Maesluan Zejaire: (*approves*)
Latrans Adustus: It can be hard to get a read on people in those situations, definitely.
Maesluan Zejaire: The idea here is that if the issue is mundane, try to just drop it rather than make it explode into something far too dramatic for the issue that it is.
Maesluan Zejaire: Any questions on that issue?
Maesluan Zejaire: Am I the only one who saw that?
Maesluan Zejaire: Seems like that's that then? Just try not to vag-wag or dick-wave too much, I guess.
Maesluan Zejaire: Open forum time. Seeennnnd me a tell if there's something you want to bring up.
Maesluan Zejaire: Or Zach
Maesluan Zejaire: Zach or me.
Raurimont Nix: Or any officer.
Maesluan Zejaire: At this point, Zach and I are the primary controllers of the conversation so I'd PREFER us, but Illith, Cibus, Thel, and Nix are open too
Latrans Adustus: Actually, I've got a question regarding alts.
Maesluan Zejaire: *meeting not conversation? Not sure if that's a point
Maesluan Zejaire: yes?
Raurimont Nix: Im not. Me no el officero
Maesluan Zejaire: ((NOr am I?))
Raurimont Nix: I mean
Raurimont Nix: You can talk to me if you like
Raurimont Nix: We can be besties and such
Illith Lith: If there is an issue, bottom line, message Zach or Maes for this open forum. If not, don't say anything. Period.
Illith Lith: Whatever is happening.
Maesluan Zejaire: Latrans?
Raurimont Nix: who wants cake
Latrans Adustus: Are we allowed to have alts in the free company? I know some FCs don't mind, some do.
Raurimont Nix: yes
Zachree Rowlaux: Oh yeah. that's no problem.
Maesluan Zejaire: *points to Nanasi on the roster* That's me.
Zachree Rowlaux: I tend to kick at 60 days of inactivity tho
Raurimont Nix: xi just chose to spread herself out of her own whim
Zachree Rowlaux: Which I think is actually pretty generous.
Raurimont Nix: you can throw yours all in here
Latrans Adustus: don't really want to pull Lat, since I like it here, lol
Maesluan Zejaire: Good to hear!
Raurimont Nix: Ill pull lat. My room. 5 minutes.
Latrans Adustus: No. Here. Now.
Maesluan Zejaire: I promise meetings usually aren't this argumentative... I think... this is like the second meeting I've made it to.
Latrans Adustus: I want everyone to see/
Raurimont Nix: Oh okay
Maesluan Zejaire: Ohhhh can my pudding join?
Latrans Adustus: Yes. We'll need pudding, actually.
Maesluan Zejaire: So... anything then?
Raurimont Nix: I vote we all relax over some cake. I have some right here.
Zeruda Ironheart: I have something if nobody else does.. as long as we're laying all our cards on the table.
Illith Lith: Thats not cake.
Maesluan Zejaire: Go ahead, Zeruda
Raurimont Nix: Go ahead Zeruda.
Zachree Rowlaux: I'm going to mention that a lot of us have things we need to work on to be better company members. Myself included. If I do something that bothers you I invite you to talk to me about it, as I genuinely have a desire to solve issues in almost all circumstances. And the only way I can better myself personally is if I know where the issues lie.
Zeruda Ironheart: It's really more of a personal issue, and observance.
Maesluan Zejaire: Go ahead? Or would you rather send it as a tell?
Raurimont Nix: Open forum may be best, it encourages oppen communication.
Raurimont Nix: Open* even.
Latrans Adustus: Oh, actually, I've got a statement too, but it's not super immediate.
Zeruda Ironheart: I've noticed what I consider to be a great deal of self centeredness, particularly when it comes to RP
Maesluan Zejaire: *nods* Just leaving the option there in case she was uncomfortable saying it aloud
Illith Lith: I am going to echo Zach's comment. If you do have an issue with anything i've said, a lot of the time i'm not paying attention enough to really catch what i'm saying. If you don't say anything; even if you think it may make me growly, well, you best say it. I'm not the best with criticism, but I AM an adult; so say it like you mean it or don't. Up to you.
Maesluan Zejaire: What do you mean?
Raurimont Nix: People want to do their RP and only their RP, and show little concern or interest in the ideas of others that don't involve their personal story.
Zeruda Ironheart: basically that
Kilandara Zomerana: Four lines all waiting.
Zeruda Ironheart: or if they do get into other RP, they take any opportunity they can to overlap their own personal RP into it
Zachree Rowlaux: I have no personal stories. XD
Zeruda Ironheart: to the point where it can even take over the RP initially taking place
Zachree Rowlaux: Except my cult one, but it has been shelved for a long time
Zeruda Ironheart: I want to give an example.. but this again goes back to "not wanting to start shit and piss anyone off"
Maesluan Zejaire: Mmmm, that does have a valid point. RPs can vary and if you initiate an RP and someone takes over, beat em down with a stick. And I say that jokingly, but I know of at least one story where it got taken out of the controllers hands. The idea is that the person who starts it is the "DM" so to speak and has the end say on what happens to thes tory. What happens to your character is, howver, always up to you. No one can permanently harm your character but you.
Illith Lith: Yeah. I try to RP when I can make it. I have particular ones sure; but it doesn't happen as much. If I can catch people doing things and it leads into me being able to join, then I will.
Raurimont Nix: I vote say it, pissing people off means you've affected them in some way.
Cibus Alimento: Feel free to speak Zeruda, no matter what. I assume we're all adults here.
Illith Lith: And yes; again this caters into if people DON'T know then it cannot be fixed or dealt with appropriately.
Raurimont Nix: I'm 13 and a half.
Pinny Aerani: I'm 12 and what is this
Pinny Aerani: >_>
Pinny Aerani: <_<
Illith Lith: I'm a zygote.
Thel Dawnbreaker: Nix doesn't count because he is a potato
Raurimont Nix: I AM A BANANA
Raurimont Nix: sorry
Zeruda Ironheart: Just the other day when we were RPing in my room about the Nix criminal deal..
Raurimont Nix: Go ahead Zeruda
Maesluan Zejaire: shhh people.
Maesluan Zejaire: Except Zeruda
Zeruda Ironheart: it came to a point where illith was able to join us.. and she did give some very relevant input into it
Zeruda Ironheart: but i felt like she was making too much of a point of mentioning "difficulty being au-ra"
Latrans Adustus: (I've got a personal bit to add to this conversation, once we get through the relevant stuff)
Raurimont Nix: Not to belittle your statement, but in defense I think that isnt so much her stealing the scene, as, that really is all her character thinks about atm. So for her to be obsessive about it in public is actually very accurate to how her character would act, rather than story overwriting.
Illith Lith: I just read this; lol. She wasn't even as bad as she was the first night.
Zeruda Ironheart: this is why i was hesitant to bring it up.. i dont want to make it sound like im ripping on her
Illith Lith: I tried to include you and talk to you as well.
Illith Lith: So i'm confused but go on.
Raurimont Nix: No its a valid complaint. I just wanted to shed that light on it. I do understand where you come from though
Zeruda Ironheart: you did, im not saying anything about that
Zeruda Ironheart: thats only one example thats readily in mind for me
Illith Lith: Yeah so I mostly talked about trying to find the story behind Nix.
Illith Lith: I'm going to say that right there; it may be because I use huge emotes?
Illith Lith: I get that a lot that its hard to follow.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hm, this isn't something I know very well unfortunately. I mentioned the only tip I can give. You, as the owner of the RP, have the end say of wht goes on.
Pinny Aerani: Sounds like an issue of happenstance, to be honest. We did just have a bunch of members swapping races and still figuring out how to be.
Pinny Aerani: I hope that didn't sound rude, Zeruda.
Zeruda Ironheart: im probably the one being rude
Maesluan Zejaire: Bad timing, so to speak, and I disagree. Its a concern you had. It's not something we can directly address at the moment as the issue has passed HOWEVER
Pinny Aerani: It's better to get what you perceive as issues out there and addressed rather than sit on them uncertain.
Zachree Rowlaux: No Zeruda, it's fine. You had an obseravation, and I think it is fair that you share it. I'd hate for members to be too apprehensive to bring up anything that is bothering them.
Zachree Rowlaux: Someone being bothered is just that.
Maesluan Zejaire: in the future, if you feel someone is being overzealous in their personal situation, ask them to tone down a little. We can have some issues/internal complaints be left just that, internal, untyped.
Zeruda Ironheart: i dont want you to think im calling you out, illith. you did contribute to that RP well, and in fact gained massive IC respect from Zeruda
Maesluan Zejaire: It was an example. Like, and this may be stepping on toes so pardon this, Faey and the goo.
Illith Lith: I dunno, I see it like this. That RP was the first time Illith actually LEFT her house/Zach's house to be around the other members.
Illith Lith: It makes it seem I cannot RP her the way I want.
Illith Lith: She isn't happy; no. She will make note of it. But I don't think I went over the top since the situation moved on quite quickly as that wasn't the basis why we were RPing there to begin with.
Maesluan Zejaire: I understand what you mean, I do want to say that. I cannot help that issue in the past, but my suggestion in the future is to make a comment to pull it back
Maesluan Zejaire: I will go ahead and say that if you wish to leave, now you may. Anyone who still has something they want to bring up may stick around. I will be here for a bit longer.
Latrans Adustus: I've got one thing, real quick.
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes?
Kilandara Zomerana: I'm still here, gonna just hit the retainers.
Latrans Adustus: I want to point out that Lat-the-Character is an ass. He's irreverent and finds it impossible to take most things seriously and will make fun of things he doesn't understand in an attempt to deal with them.
Latrans Adustus: He's not super respectful.
Latrans Adustus: But me, Lat-the-Dude, I want to be the opposite. I want to be super respectful.
Latrans Adustus: So if I'm ever interacting with any of you and you don't think it's fun, or you feel like I'm mocking you or your scene, or like I'm making fun of you, please, let me know!
Latrans Adustus: Just send me a polite OOC tell and I'll either cut it the hell out and make him behave more constructively, or find an excuse to be an ass elsewhere.
Raurimont Nix: Same goes for Xi guys, IC Xi is a shite. OOC she's a very nice woman who will understand if you say stop.
Maesluan Zejaire: If it helps, a lot of us are aware there is a bit fo ooc/ic difference, but it does help to know. I tend ot send apologies out every so often because my alt, Nanasi, is a bit forceful in personality.
Latrans Adustus: Yes, 100%
Pinny Aerani: Yeah, that's an issue I had to help deal with in the past: There's a difference between IC and OOC.
Illith Lith: Indeed.
Latrans Adustus: Lat's a monster. Xi is much, much the same, and when they're together, it's often worse.
Raurimont Nix: Lat you misspelled better
Latrans Adustus: But we're both 100% about being involved and not ruining other people's fun. So just let either of us know, politely, and we'll both chill the heck out.
Illith Lith: Illith IC was worse. Zach helped her 'loosen' up. BUT she isn't the most approachable of Lalafell. Which is intented since so many tend to not do the IC thing and look past them. She was raised in a very rich, notable family and can and will revert back to snooty butts.
Raurimont Nix: ah that sun filled day whe iliette and Nix hunted Xi down the streets of Uldah while a very confused Lat showed up late to the odd pesudo mugging.
Kilandara Zomerana: I just wanna point out, Kil's a total IC racist. I hope you guys realize I'm not >.>
Latrans Adustus: He just wanted to be someone's rival! How DARE people pay more attention to his girlfriend than him!
Pinny Aerani: But Kil's GF was a miqo'te. Dun dun duuuunnnn
Illith Lith: Illith can also be; but she's..."gotten better". Just don't get her drunk.
Kilandara Zomerana: She was racist to Megumi. SHEESH.
Latrans Adustus: Also, it's unrelated, but right now, I feel like I'm getting a lapdance.
Illith Lith: She may just start talking like her dad.
Raurimont Nix: racist on a case to case basis
Illith Lith: And he hates Miqo'te and Refugee scum.
Maesluan Zejaire: Eh, Nanasi is forceful but damn Maes is just polite and formal.... I think except the fact that he puts everyone on the same scale (until they're friends) he's fine...
Latrans Adustus: MORE FOR THE PILE!
Raurimont Nix: No, now youre getting a lapdance
Pinny Aerani: I'm bad at making IC personas different from my OOC persona, so Pinny is essentially myself >_>
Pinny Aerani: Except I'm not really a dragon-girl
Kilandara Zomerana: NO. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.
Latrans Adustus: YOU'RE RUINING MY IMMERSION, PINNY
Illith Lith: There are a few things I share with Illith IC; but she is usually very well mannered.
Maesluan Zejaire: So brief introduction: it has come to my attention, and from what I understand a lot of people's attention, that there have been general concerns or issues that have popped up since a little before Heavensward coming out. I'm going to open with four issues I know of, and provide a couple of suggestions on how to solve it, but would love input for htem as well. After that, we will open it up for others to bring up their concerns. Try to keep it general, but if you need to have a concern about a
Maesluan Zejaire: specific person or group, try to make it as unaccusatory as possible
Maesluan Zejaire: There will be minutes to review. I'll be making notes, but it is my understanding Zach is the primary secretary of this meeting. If you have an issue you want in private, please bring it to the attention of an officer or myself.
Maesluan Zejaire: Ah, yes, please shut off all but /tells and /say.
Maesluan Zejaire: Anyone besides Illith miss my introduction?
Maesluan Zejaire: I will take that as a no. Okay, starting off
Maesluan Zejaire: The first bit is a bit of common sense, but I figure it's a good reminder to say. I have a full understanding that Arcanum is very close and enjoys picking on each other. This, honestly, is a lot of fun and I do not want that to stop. That being said, if someone does feel uncomfortable/insulted with the topic going on, I want them to have the ability to speak up and that be the end of the conversation. A while ago, we lost someone over this (and insult, specifically), and I feel it should also
Maesluan Zejaire: include topics-- sexual, political, punny-- and that if someone does not appreciate the conversation in the linkshell, they should not feel intimidated to speak up. If you are asked to stop, do not be insulted either by the request (assuming they're polite about it), and cease. People have their own things they're comfortable with, and not everyone is willing to go as far as the next person.
Kilandara Zomerana: Can I mention something about that point?
Maesluan Zejaire: Hm?
Kilandara Zomerana: We have as many non confrontational and anxious people as we do boisterous or confident individuals. Many times, most insults are never confronted not because the person feels intimidated. At least, I doubt it, but because they just don't want to start something.
Zachree Rowlaux: I would like to point out right quick that there was another person I can think of that left due to feeling targetted and uncomfortable due to conversation.
Maesluan Zejaire: Very true, I'm one such person. I didn't say anything when I was more recently because I was afraid of stepping on toes.
Maesluan Zejaire: Zach?
Kilandara Zomerana: Most of the time, if I say or do something wrong to someone like this, I'm either just flat out not told or blown off.
Illith Lith: I agree with Kil.
Illith Lith: On that note.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on, we'll come back to that note
Latrans Adustus: Aaaactually
Latrans Adustus: Quick question.
Maesluan Zejaire: hm?
Latrans Adustus: You mentioned several topics (sexual. political, punny) which can be problematic...
Latrans Adustus: Are, uh... Are people actually bothered by puns?
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes. But we'll come back to that
Latrans Adustus: ...
Latrans Adustus: Alrighty.
Maesluan Zejaire: First, Zach wanted to say something. There is something I want to talk about specifically about puns
Maesluan Zejaire: Nvm
Maesluan Zejaire: Zach just wanted to make sure we knew it wasn't an isolated incident
Latrans Adustus: So... they won't be tolerated? There'll be retrubution?
Latrans Adustus: pun...ishment?
Maesluan Zejaire: Ok, since the pun argument is short, I'll explain. We don't have issues with puns, just excessiveness
Maesluan Zejaire: Or repetitiveness.
Maesluan Zejaire: Puns are fine, but if you tend to get carried away and someone says something, please stop
Maesluan Zejaire: Same goes with sexual things. We poke a lot of fun about, say, Nix's microscopic balls
Maesluan Zejaire: But if someone gets uncomfortable from, for example, Maes stalking someone, then speak up and it shall cease.
Maesluan Zejaire: And the topics can stretch to a lot of things.
Kilandara Zomerana: I want to state that I am an excessive punster, but for the life of me I cannot understand to any capacity why puns are bad. I get the excessive or repetitive part, but even then, I just want to go on record that puns are arguably the most non offensive thing you can say that's more about the language. I stop, usually, when asked, but I just want to point out that it's weird to me to be asked to stop.
Illith Lith: Its the excessiveness.
Maesluan Zejaire: Agreed, but it can make people uncomfortable or annoyed.
Raurimont Nix: I think puns are the least of anyones worries, and Maes was just trying to be as throough as possible, so lets not get hung up on the small deal and ignore the rest.
Maesluan Zejaire: And as such, the simple point is that if someone isn't okay with the topic, to simply stop or move it to a private chat
Raurimont Nix: thorough*
Azerill Reinhart: ((puns aren't bad bad{like BAD BOY, bad} but they can be bad as in [GROAN!] bad))
Illith Lith: A couple or so isn't a huge issue. But going on a tirade with multiple people is annoying. Sure, you can ignore it. Or try. I'd have to turn off the LS more often than not if that was the case at times.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thank you, Nix, that is exactly it
Maesluan Zejaire: Back to the issue Kil and ILlith brought up
Kilandara Zomerana: My point is more that if five or six people are having fun, why stop for one annoyed person? Especially when it's harmless.
Latrans Adustus: Groan bad is good bad.
Illith Lith: Well, then go with it.
Zachree Rowlaux: I do believe this topic is more about respecting your fellow FC mate, not puns or the like.
Azerill Reinhart: ^
Raurimont Nix: The lack of simple understanding of the topic is rather concerning but not surprising.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm disagreeing about the fact that it's a public LS with people not in our FC and it's non offensive fun.
Maesluan Zejaire: Because we're a family, Kil. We respect each other and the linkshell is for everyone. If you want to continue it when someone is bothered, feel free to bring it to another forum.
Maesluan Zejaire: Moving on.
Maesluan Zejaire: Kil and Illith brought up people being uncomfortable about speaking up. I am included in this group, in fact that's why I am holding this meeting. Does anyone have any suggestions around this? Maybe talking to an officer about it?
Kilandara Zomerana: If someone doesn't want to speak up the likely people they will speak up to are people who are close to them. If it was as easy as speaking up, they'd do it. But that causes confrontation.
Illith Lith: I rarely ever hear anything personally; even as the "HR" Officer.
Cibus Alimento: In essence, no matter FC position we should all feel as equals.
Azerill Reinhart: How about Haveing a representative, someone that can take the complaint and pass it on with no names attached?
Illith Lith: I hear it from other officers; if that.
Xifang Crimson: That seems like a good idea. Talk to an officer if you can, for sure. Someone with authority you feel comfortable with
Raurimont Nix: I think the officers need to be more stern. I myself left my position, for several reasons, one being that I found myself being restrained when I saw fit to stop people. Instead I was not allowed to act in the interest of not making anyone feel bad in the slightest despite their actions potentially damaging the experience of several.
Latrans Adustus: If you want something with no names attached, set up an anonymous report tumblr that only the officers have access to.
Azerill Reinhart: I mean someone who is not and IG officer, some one new.....
Latrans Adustus: Ask Xi about it. It works.
Kilandara Zomerana: Well, to be frank, you're not going to fix a psychological issue.
Maesluan Zejaire: I don't think only one person should be appointed.
Illith Lith: I see Nix's point.
Kilandara Zomerana: Barring something like what Lat said.
Illith Lith: I have also thought about just giving up officer position for something similiar.
Maesluan Zejaire: That makes it difficult to talk to the individual if THEY are the one you're upset about. Remember, no one is perfect. Everyone's going to irritate someone along the line.
Xifang Crimson: That's true. I used to run an anonymous tumblr forum for people to put complaints and comments in
Azerill Reinhart: I do like that Idea.
Raurimont Nix: All officers should be seen as approachable, and all officers should be able and willing to handle any situation presented. You're here to look over your members, not to tunnel vision into a 'role'
Xifang Crimson: For the FC I was an officer of in the way back. I could help with that again or you guys could make a far better one I bet
Illith Lith: To put it bluntly; this is a small company. If you can't talk to the officers about your issues, then what can you do? And if you do; and things happen, well. How can anyone do anything if they don't know about it?
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, but we're talking basic psychology here. If I have no desire to get into any confrontation and keep the status quo, I just flat out won't say something. I mean, this is how most introverts are.
Maesluan Zejaire: I don't have any issues with the tumblr idea, except that the issue may be made public. And if it's something specific...
Maesluan Zejaire: So talking to someone uninvolved isn't your solution. Do you have one, Kil?
Xifang Crimson: I think the anonymous comment box I made before could be good for exactly that reason
Illith Lith: Then there is no point bringing it up if they can't bother to spit out what the problem is. If they want to bring it to another member they are more comfortable with, then they can bring it to an officer, then so be. This is what can incite a lot of needless drama.
Kilandara Zomerana: Setting up a system where we understand that this is just going to happen, and setting up something like the comment box to curb the behavior.
Kilandara Zomerana: Passive aggressiveness is going to happen.
Kilandara Zomerana: We cannot control that.
Illith Lith: Its not like its going to take a rocket scientist to pinpoint who it is having the issue with the small company.
Kilandara Zomerana: We can deal with how we respond.
Maesluan Zejaire: So, a mixture of an anonymous tumblr and talking to the officers? Whichever the individual feels comfortable with?
Kilandara Zomerana: AND figuring out a way to respond when they inevitably do neither.
Xifang Crimson: The best thing is that everyone feel like they have SOME venue for dealing with this other than running away or just wallowing in their discomfort. That's distinctly a not fun experience in a game we play for fun
Kilandara Zomerana: If we had a cure for passive aggressiveness, the world would be an incredibly different place.
Zachree Rowlaux: On what Nix said, I have no issues with officers talking to people one on one about issues present in the FC. What I did not want to see is public repremanding. Which is something that was frequently done at the time. Being an officer such things should be taken private
Kilandara Zomerana: All we can do is provide avenues.
Maesluan Zejaire: Leaving two options is the best we can, stewing on it after that is their own fault. We can only do so much.
Latrans Adustus: Well, Kil, maybe SOME PEOPLE *do* have a cure. Just saying.
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes, if you're going to talk to an officer, do it in private
Latrans Adustus: (that was... I'm, uh, not being serious there)
Maesluan Zejaire: And that's also my concern about the anonymous box. Is the notes public? I've not dealt with sucha thing before.
Kilandara Zomerana: To mention that Maes, I just want to say that we shouldn't blame a victim. If they feel genuinely insulted for a reason they don't want to share, I'd rather the people in charge realize that the person did have reasons to not do it.
Latrans Adustus: Notes could be private, onlly viewable by people who maintain the tumblr
Maesluan Zejaire: No, I'm not saying blame the victim, but we can't have a solution if we don't know there's a problem.
Kilandara Zomerana: We can just be ready for that scenario, is all I'm saying
Maesluan Zejaire: Anyone here know enough about tumblr and is willing to start up such a thing?
Xifang Crimson: It's really really easy. It doesn't have to be me. XD But if you want it to be, I can
Zachree Rowlaux: I've always stated that I am open to discussing anything with any member but it really feels as though people avoid me. They don't bring anything up to me until it is either too late or they have withdrawn themselves physically or emotionally from the company.,
Zeruda Ironheart: I can offer a bit of insight into that.
Zeruda Ironheart: At least from my perspective.
Maesluan Zejaire: Zeruda?
Xifang Crimson: I bet, Zach, that people feel like if they go to you first that it's a BIG DEAL and they want to solve it themselves first... then they wait too long
Raurimont Nix: I think the point that needs to be made here is that officers need to be more open to members, and members need to feel more comfortable talking to officers if there is a problem
Maesluan Zejaire: Give a moment for Zeruda to speak. I do want to comment on what was just said.
Zeruda Ironheart: For me personally, I try not to bring something to the officers unless it's absolutely necessary, as I feel with as much as they always seem to have alot of IRL stuff to deal with as well as wanting to actually play the game
Zeruda Ironheart: I feel like I would be burdening and annoying them
Raurimont Nix: You would not be. They are there to help and during my time I was more than willing to step aside from my current task if someone expressed a need.
Raurimont Nix: They should all be so willing.
Zachree Rowlaux: That's why were here.
Maesluan Zejaire: This discussion is an attempt to help that be realized
Raurimont Nix: If they are not, please make this known to another officer so they may speak within themselves
Illith Lith: Just checkd back on this. I agree with Zach. Also Kudos on Zeruda.
Megumi Firefists: I don't know if its worth mentioning, but when I was new(er) here, I was intimidated as hell by the "officers". For the life of me, I cannot think of why now.
Illith Lith: And yes, if its serious I would step out and do the talking. But usually, as I said, and same thing Zach has made note, we kinda only hear about it way later or whatever.
Zachree Rowlaux: Please please please come to me if you have something on your mind that needs to be discussed. If anything it may stop me from feeling lonely in game.
I'll be all "Someone is talking to me!"Megumi Firefists: But I was hesitant to speak to anyone.
Kilandara Zomerana: To give a genuine counterpoint, there's no black and white here. Some people just don't like imposing. Ever. Not without a large level of trust or a long time of knowing someone.
Maesluan Zejaire: I know it's hard to convince you, but if you have an issue that you think is smaller than a officer's problem but big enough to cause a rift between you and another member, choose to talk to them instead.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on people.
Maesluan Zejaire: Too much text at once makes it jumbled
Maesluan Zejaire: Excluding Zach, I'm going to ask that you mention you have a point you want to be made, that way we are taking time to address people's opinions and not repeating things over again.
Raurimont Nix: Kil that is not what is being addressed. If someone doesnt want to talk thats fine. We are addressing the issue of people not feeling like they are able to have a safe place or person to speak with
Illith Lith: ^
Maesluan Zejaire: As Nix said.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, I'm saying some people will just never have a safe place or person.
Kilandara Zomerana: Because that's their personality.
Thel Dawnbreaker: I do have something on note regarding not bringing stuff to officers since you want honestity here.
Kilandara Zomerana: And there's nothing wrong with that.
Maesluan Zejaire: And this isn't a personal attack on you, Kil. The issue is that in such a situation there is nothing we, as people separated by the internet, cannot predict that.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thel?
Maesluan Zejaire: And honesty is the point here.
Thel Dawnbreaker: It all comes down to people not wanting to start drama and while I have no intent to berate anyone but I get the impression that Zach and Illith seem to be a tad sensitive to stuff from my perspective and I respect both of them enough to be honest and state this. People are afraid to approach our stewards out of fear they will take a minor issue and make it a huge thing.
Maesluan Zejaire: That's why I'm hoping we recognize that there is more than just Illith and Zach. We also have you or Cibus or Faey.
Illith Lith: I'm very opinionated; lol.
Thel Dawnbreaker: Or at least that's where I stand and feel others might have a similar view
Raurimont Nix: This was part of what I meant earlier, Thel is accurate. I was unable to act due to the desire to 'not cause drama'
Maesluan Zejaire: And I understand that there are people who are sensitive and people who are trying to avoid drama. THe hope here is that the officer that is talked to is one who can be impartial.
Maesluan Zejaire: Which, admittedly, is a difficult task.
Illith Lith: Well that is the issue on our end; I only hear from Cibus mostly when there are issues then try to deal with them if I can.
Kilandara Zomerana: I feel there's an ivory tower issue here.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on Kil, we'll get there
Kilandara Zomerana: This is unrelated.
Maesluan Zejaire: We'll get to that point then
Maesluan Zejaire: if you feel it's not important but want to say it anyway, feel free to send it to me as a tell
Zachree Rowlaux: I try to get in touch with people as much as I can, and talk to people willing. There are a few individuals I attempt to give some space because they seem to want to be alone, but I try to be as inclusive OOCly as I can. Whatever 'sensitiveness' I might be having I think is poorly perceived.
Kilandara Zomerana: Actually, I made that wrong. The ivory tower issue IS related to what is being said. The point I wanted to make is not.
Maesluan Zejaire: Go ahead Kil, then.
Illith Lith: I am just more "blunt". Unless you can pinpoint the specifics; then I have nothing else to say to you.
Maesluan Zejaire: The point here is to not get angry, Illith. In fact, if I'm being honest, there's a part of one of my second points being brought about here. For now, let Kil speak. And PLEASE not that you have something to say before we speak.
Maesluan Zejaire: So we can let people take turns.
Kilandara Zomerana: An ivory tower issue is when you have a very clear distinction of either goals or ranks, kinda a class system. I feel that, for a large amount of things, there is a clear ivory tower between the stewards, officers, and members. I personally have said many times that Faey, Cibus, and Thel are all approachable, but to give it a bit more of a definition, I feel that Zach and Illith (and a lesser extent) and Nix were in an ivory tower situation not out of any form of malice or wrongdoing.
Kilandara Zomerana: Thel and Faey are on during prime time daily, and Cibus can be as well. Nix, Illith, and Zach are virtually all graveyard shift or odd hours.
Kilandara Zomerana: This creates an ivory tower simply by virtue.
Maesluan Zejaire: And that's a part of something I said earlier
Raurimont Nix: True enough, and this talk is intended to quell those issues as best we can, because the effects of which are becoming troublesome. This is a meeting to open communication, to reduce these perceptions.
Xifang Crimson: ((Guys. I'm really really sorry to break this up when there are some important issues at play here. But I have to work at 3 am and really need to go to bed. If you want me to do the tumblr thing, lemme know! And if this discussion could be put up on the website in some manner, that'd be lovely. I'd be happy to know what issues there are, how to help and such))
Maesluan Zejaire: I have a full understanding that not every officer is approachable to everyone.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, but this has nothing to do with approachability or the like, it's simply that if we communicate or say something, we may not be able to properly hours to days of context.
Maesluan Zejaire: ((Go ahead, Xi, we'll send notes later, okay?))
Maesluan Zejaire: That's a part of being approachable.
Xifang Crimson: ((OK. Sorry to join and run like this.))
Maesluan Zejaire: ((You're fine))
Maesluan Zejaire: It's different fro everyone.
Kilandara Zomerana: See, I disagree. Zach is one of the most approachable and huggable people I know, and someone who I have no problem talking to.
Maesluan Zejaire: Different variations of appraoch, and this is beside the issue. While you say that Zach isn't available all the times when you feel you need to approach an officer, there is others you can.
Kilandara Zomerana: If Zach isn't able to be around for the event, or simply cannot have the given context without flat out being given notes, there is a large amount of a gulf by existence.
Maesluan Zejaire: We have 5 officers who are on varying hours, if you cannot approach one, the hope is that you can approach another.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right, but the officers have different responsibilities and it goes in contrast with what Zach (or Illith or Nix) may want. If I approach Thel for a behavioral thing, he's well within his rights to talk about it with the other two, or kick it up.
Kilandara Zomerana: And if Thel's running an event or busy, it's not as simple.
Maesluan Zejaire: We do have skype, you know
Illith Lith: I was about to say that.
Kilandara Zomerana: A public place, and that isn't where things happen.
Illith Lith: Most people have it; if it is a major issues its not hard to find us.
Illith Lith: Even if we are not on.
Raurimont Nix: This is all true, but we want people to know that just because the currently available officer isnt the one theyre used to, it doesnt mean they should talk to them. We are all willing to help. I understand the level of comfort comes with familiarity, IE people on at the same times normally, but all officers are here and people need to make note of that.
Maesluan Zejaire: I don't know about you, but I have a majority of the arc officers' accounts to send a message individually to them.
Illith Lith: Its how I found out from other issues via the other Officers.
Maesluan Zejaire: I imagine that the officers would not be against giving it out, at least hte ones you feel you're more comfortable talking to.
Raurimont Nix: From the Arcanum skype group you can select "members", and it will list all inside the chat. You can use this trick to speak to individuals
Maesluan Zejaire: This also would be a forum that would allow people to note things verbatum.
Kilandara Zomerana: Right but, let's say I have an issue with Thel. Zach and Illith aren't around, Cibus is. I tell Cibus. Cibus then has to talk to stewards.
Illith Lith: AND if you are not part of the group, we can add you.
Kilandara Zomerana: And suddenly, we have a bad game of telephone.
Kilandara Zomerana: I could talk to Zach or Illith, who may be asleep or working.
Kilandara Zomerana: Cibus has no authority over Thel.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thel should have no authority over Cibus either...
Kilandara Zomerana: Correct.
Raurimont Nix: This being said, I would also note that we have grown as an FC, where we used to all be in direct contact as a small tight knit group we have let this connection fall off as we have grown multiple times our starting size.
Kilandara Zomerana: So I either go to Cibus, who then begins the part of telephone (and Zach may feel like we should have gone to him), and there's a lot of tails that may be stepped on.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hold on Kil.
Maesluan Zejaire: The point in going to an officer isn't to get them reprimanded. We go to an officer because they are the best options, and choose to go to any other officer if you have an issue with another. Skype, the forum, and in game.
Maesluan Zejaire: We'll try to organize it so that everyone can reach out to the officers in all three forums, but that'll just take effort
Maesluan Zejaire: Nix?
Raurimont Nix: That being said, THE FORUM IS TOTALLY LEGITIMATE AS AN OPTION. Leave a post and we will get back to you!
Cibus Alimento: The message will always be there and we can get to it when we can
Latrans Adustus: Forums are great.
Maesluan Zejaire: Let me ask you this, Kil, in a single sentence what is the problem you see here?
Kilandara Zomerana: We're trying to solve a problem that cannot be solved instead of finding ways to deal with the inevitable outcome.
Kilandara Zomerana: And we're interpreting it as a problem that needs fixing.
Raurimont Nix: People do not use it enough, there are personal tells, and people can and SHOULD use it!
Kilandara Zomerana: More importantly, we're also ignoring a lot of given or outside circumstances that factor in
Maesluan Zejaire: No? My problem I'm trying to solve is to provide outlets for people who need to talk indirectly about a problem that has come up.
Kilandara Zomerana: Can I expand on this with an example to explain it?
Maesluan Zejaire: Anything beyond that is an issue being brought up by outside forces.
Maesluan Zejaire: No. NOt at this point. So far, the two issues you've brought up were the issues that were not solveable.
Maesluan Zejaire: ANd we seriously need to move on
Kilandara Zomerana: Fine. But I just want to state I am frustrated.
Zachree Rowlaux: I'm really not comfortable with the concept of 'officer favourites'. I WANT to talk to you. I cannot stress that enough. I want to help you through whatever issues you might be having. Please approach me at any time, if you don't know me well enough I invite you to get to know me. Simple as that.
Raurimont Nix: KILANDARA! This is a forum to discuss issues within the company and thus far you have provided some insight, but please refrain from creating arguments where this is supposed to be a place of aiding others. Yes there are developments within the company to be made. Please refrain from holding back conversations with a single point, we have had a majority of input from you so far being objection to Maes while constructive notes have been few and far between.
Maesluan Zejaire: I've said what I can. If you have a problem and are unwilling to speak up to the person for fear of eggshells, talk to an officer. Even if it IS an officer, we have four tohers and you can contact them via skype or the forum or in game.
Kilandara Zomerana: I don't have a single problem with a person. At all.
Kilandara Zomerana: I never have.
Kilandara Zomerana: And I'm one of the most vocal people in this FC. I bitch at the drop of a hat.
Azerill Reinhart: "Let it go!"
Maesluan Zejaire: Beside the point. Moving on.
Maesluan Zejaire: So, summarize: the point of this is that if you have an issue do not be afraid to speak up. If you are uncomfortable with it, go to an officer by whatever means provided. Beyond that, we cannot solve a problem we do not know exists.
Maesluan Zejaire: Anyone confused?
Maesluan Zejaire: Also, a small suggestion to the officers. Don't do it obsessively, but if you have a few minutes to listen to an issue, say something in the linkshell similar to "Everything alright? Anything I need to know about?"
Maesluan Zejaire: this way people who aren't here, people who are new, or people who need a small reminder know that there is an officer on who will listen.
Zeruda Ironheart: I have a semi-related suggestion.
Maesluan Zejaire: This idea seems to be have been rejected, when the officers finish talking someone will post a finalized version.
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes Zeruda?
Zeruda Ironheart: If one doesn't exist already, maybe a forum post giving the names and specific positions of the officers in the FC, just so there is a point of reference in case anyone forgets or doesn't know.
Maesluan Zejaire: I THINK there is one already, but if there isn't can we get one Zach?
Raurimont Nix: Ill make that now
Maesluan Zejaire: Thank you Nix
Zachree Rowlaux: Well. There is an 'officer' section on the forums. Yes. Our names are visible and you can PM us directly.
Latrans Adustus: ((shit. cats are crazy brb))
Zachree Rowlaux: At the bottom of home page actually.
Maesluan Zejaire: Okay, next point. This one is small and may just be my personal opinion/position: if you do catch yourself getting into an argument in mumble, skype, or the linkshell (especially if someone brings it up) and you feel it needs to be addressed with the individual, PLEASE move it to a private place. Arguments can have a negative light on people in the arguments andw e do not need to ahve that spread about to uninvolved people. *I* am at fault for this too, as I have argued with Azerill in the links
Maesluan Zejaire: *linkshell
Maesluan Zejaire: This is similar to talking to an officer in private if you have a complaint
Maesluan Zejaire: Any questions?
Raurimont Nix: Zach is correct, at the bottom of the homepage is a list and direct message hyperlinks to all officers.
Maesluan Zejaire: ((Thank you Zach, Nix))
Zeruda Ironheart: My bad, I never knew that was there. My bookmark goes right to the forums.
Raurimont Nix: The arc site can be found inside the FC message, and is here as well for those who would wish to bookmark it if you havent.
Raurimont Nix: arcanumcompany.boards.net/
Maesluan Zejaire: Okay, no complaints about that point
Maesluan Zejaire: Okaayyy, the big one. Cliques/people being left out/assistance in item gathering. Be prepared. Give me a fw moments to make a long post
Maesluan Zejaire: I have heard from several sources that people have had issues getting together with other members in doing dungeons/loot runs and so on. While we're open in talking on the linkshell, it has become evident that some of us are having a harder time getting a group together. Cliques are going to happen. Kil pointed out hours bieng one part, generally who the person is is another part. I will not look to stop that, but we do need to all look and try to help others. I especially am hoping that we look
Maesluan Zejaire: to help with first time runners, largely the ones who haven't even gotten to the HW content. ((still talking))
Maesluan Zejaire: People who are doing farms also need to be aware that since that won't necessarily benefit everyone and can be a bit tedious for those with no benefits, it goes probably on the lowest scale of importance. Law farms being the exception in this point, I guess. (still talking)
Maesluan Zejaire: Also, people need to understand that we do not always want to run dungeons. Sometimes we're rping, sometimes we're just relaxing and enjoying being social. You cannot force people to party, but we should all try to make more of an effort to be available.
Maesluan Zejaire: I want to point out that, from my understanding, Nix, Illith, and Thel all have major points they wanted to bring up. Am I right?
Maesluan Zejaire: ((And Maybe Zach?))
Kilandara Zomerana: That has an incredibly easy solution, Maes. Just as a side note.
Thel Dawnbreaker: I have nothing else to say.
Zachree Rowlaux: (( Maybe. I want to see what others have to say first ))
Maesluan Zejaire: Mm, before we address the solution, I want to know the full content of the issue
Maesluan Zejaire: Illith?
Pinny Aerani: I'd like to speak on the issue, but it's more of a personal thing in regards to this.
Maesluan Zejaire: If Illith doesn't have anything immediately, we'll go to you. Otherwise, I'll come to you right after Illith.
Illith Lith: Yeah
Maesluan Zejaire: You have the floor, so to speak, my ex-lalafel steward
Illith Lith: I am still Lalafell.
Illith Lith: >:C
Maesluan Zejaire: In spirit XD Beside the point though.
Illith Lith: No you can go ahead.
Maesluan Zejaire: YOu want us to come back or you don't have anything at the moment.
Illith Lith: I'm attempting to put this together in a not super i'm going to cut you way.
Maesluan Zejaire: *?
Raurimont Nix: Okay then pinny can go.
Maesluan Zejaire: Take your time. Pinny, go ahead.
Raurimont Nix: Personal is fine so long as you are not being overly accusatory or abusive. If the issue is left unresolved for you, please speak to an officer to seek a full handling of the situation.
Maesluan Zejaire: YES! On that note, if there is anything that doesn't come up in the meeting before we close, or if you feel you have an issue that is unresolved at the end of this, please contact someone.
Pinny Aerani: I don't have an issue at all: I just wanted to make sure we all know there's a difference between a clique and people not being in the mood to run dungeons, because I feel sometimes people can confuse the two.
Pinny Aerani: It's "I don't want to run with you" versus "I don't feel like running right now."
Illith Lith: I think a lot of people, as we are talking in mumble about it right now, is that a lot of people won't bother to help people with story things and what not unless it completely benefits them.
Illith Lith: So
Illith Lith: Or how it seems to me*
Illith Lith: So
Maesluan Zejaire: No, no, there are cliques, I'm not saying that in a bad way. Certain people hang out with other certain people more than others. That's not the issue, I have no problem with these groups.
Illith Lith: We have people who are new, may need help with things.
llith Lith: But it seems its a time thing; according to mumble thing.
Pinny Aerani: So, and correct me if I'm wrong...Is the main issue here that we have too many people who don't want to run story content when people ask for help? Two different issues that were brought together?
Pinny Aerani: Because there's cliques and then there's people not wanting to help unless it gives them LAWWWWW
Illith Lith: Its more like very particular to how people tend to stick with people.
Raurimont Nix: I think the issue is that there are times when there is not much show of support for members who are newer to content.
Illith Lith: No i'm talking about story stuff.
Illith Lith: I've seen it. I'm not talking about Law.
Illith Lith: Not even things dealing with Heavensward.
Illith Lith: BUT again, I take into consideration people can do whatever they want. But if you want this "togetherness", especially for newer members or those who feel left out -
Illith Lith: You can't force anyone to do anything; but its being made and brought to the forefront since some people actually, well, are bringing it up.
Maesluan Zejaire: I have to point out, this personally is one i've been told about not one I've faced. People have been struggling to find parties at particular hours. The issue here is to know where it falls in teh category of unwilling to help or just worn out.
Maesluan Zejaire: I myself am unsure how to appraoch this problem, I just have been informed of its existance.
Kilandara Zomerana: Can I address the solution now?
Illith Lith: There are a lot of people on at times.
Raurimont Nix: I would like to address the relationship between cliques and RP when I can.
Illith Lith: But I understand people have things to do/want to do. But the silence I think is the more obnoxious part.
Illith Lith: But thats most from me at the moment to see the other thoughts.
Raurimont Nix: Speak Kil, so long as it is constructive.
Maesluan Zejaire: So, one thing we may do is that if you aren't presently doing something (like in a dungeon or afk), say something whens omeone asks. Like "sorry, I'm just waiting for something." This way we know the question isn't being ingored
Kilandara Zomerana: One moment.
Kilandara Zomerana: This is a very common psychological/behavioral thing known as the bystanders dilemma or bystander effect, I forget which. The common example is when you find someone dying in the middle of a busy street, if you yell "Call the police" nobody will call the police.
Kilandara Zomerana: However, if you point at someone and say "You, call the police" they will either do so, or state the reason tehy cannot.
Kilandara Zomerana: Ergo, standard human nature dictates that if you ask a general request to run a party, most people will assume you're not talking to them (non maliciously) and carry on.
Kilandara Zomerana: However, if you ask a specific perseon, they will either say yes, or give a reason why not.
Kilandara Zomerana: Even ignoring that some people may just have LS off.
Maesluan Zejaire: So then, you're saying another suggestion is the opposite of what I said (not arguing the point, I think it's valid). If you're looking to run something, ask someone specifically who yuo think is available and capable of running what you want? I think that's a good idea, to be honest.
Kilandara Zomerana: Correct. This is an incredibly common and well known psychological situation.
Zachree Rowlaux: It is a good idea.
Raurimont Nix: True, but this is a company, we are supposed to keep an eye out and be willing to help, Step into the situation. We are not passers by, we are a company and should act like one.
Maesluan Zejaire: I think both work to alleviate it, though it isn't a 100% solution.
Kilandara Zomerana: Humans are subject to human nature.
Kilandara Zomerana: This even addresses the item gathering part too.
Maesluan Zejaire: It's a step in the right direction.
Raurimont Nix: Humans are subject to human nature when convenient, and above nature when noting themselves as human.
Raurimont Nix: So the reality is, people need to be proactive.
Kilandara Zomerana: Why?
Kilandara Zomerana: Officers are the only ones here who signed up to do a job.
Maesluan Zejaire: I disagree.
Pinny Aerani: Technically, we all joined up because we wanted a group of people to do stuff with.
Kilandara Zomerana: Correct. Or just company.
Raurimont Nix: Exactly.
Kilandara Zomerana: Or we joined up because of a friend of a friend.
Kilandara Zomerana: Or peer pressure. Or any number of reasons.
Raurimont Nix: If you joined for a title then you missed the point.
Maesluan Zejaire: We all have a job. Officers is more defined and has more responsibility, but once you joined the company you agreed to consider yourself a part of this group. If this entails helping others, speaking up to let others know when you AREN'T available or going the extra mile to try and contact someone, then that's your job.
Raurimont Nix: Exactly what Maes said. Your reasons dont matter after you join, you joined and became a part of the company, one who will help and be helped. If you dont see it that way then you are not a member of Arc, you're just a person with a tag on your head.
Kilandara Zomerana: Please stop speaking in a matter of black and white.
Azerill Reinhart: Most of this is Black and white Kil, how can you expect help when you gove none in return?
Raurimont Nix: This company is not for people to lounge and leech. It's not a matter of black and white, it's what the ideology of the company is. We help each other, we befirend each other, and even if we annoy each other we are still united.
Maesluan Zejaire: That was just being blunt, not black and white per se. The point of the matter is that as a member of arc, you still have a job and an obligation to be a part of this as a whole.
Zachree Rowlaux: Going to interject right quick, I do expect each member to participate and interact with the FC. I do expect even members to create RP storyarcs for the FC to enjoy. Its true the officers have been fielding that and they do a great job, but getting people together for dungeons and RP on a regular basis is not the duty of handful of people. It is the responsibility of all.
Kilandara Zomerana: So we should, say, shame Cibus because he primarily RPs and coordinates RP events but doesn't PVE? Or maybe we have a hardcore PVE'r like Megumi, myself, or Faey who push to get Bismarck/Ravana unlocked to better carry other people.
Raurimont Nix: You are the one speaking of shaming.
Kilandara Zomerana: And may or may not be available to RP or help other people.
Maesluan Zejaire: No, "helping" has many definitions Faey.
Kilandara Zomerana: Kil.
Kilandara Zomerana: No Nix, you do. You speak of responsibility, of people who NEED or SHOULD do these things.
Maesluan Zejaire: sorry, was looking at theword faey and typing it whle reading
Thel Dawnbreaker: Also a good point and I know there are people who do that I need to address when I get a chance but if you have an event idea please bring it to an officer and we will see about getting it setup and out there.
Kilandara Zomerana: And you're making it an all or nothing thing.
Maesluan Zejaire: And you're exasperating the issue.
Zachree Rowlaux: I'm going to ask that personal attacks be scaled back.
Kilandara Zomerana: I'm pointing out that it isn't.
Zachree Rowlaux: To nothing.
Maesluan Zejaire: Sorry, that was my bad too
Raurimont Nix: Yes I spoke of responsibilty and unity. I did not say shame those who dont show it. People are here to do what they do, but if they see themself as one, all alone for themself, they are not part of the FC.
Raurimont Nix: They are a person with a tag, as I said.
Maesluan Zejaire: No, the point was a general statement, not an absolute statement. People have responsibilities in different way, the idea is that we all need to communicate about we can/will/can't/won't do.
Kilandara Zomerana: Nix, no offense intended, but that's a with us or against us speech.
Raurimont Nix: It is.
Kilandara Zomerana: ...that is literally an example of shaming and exclusion.
Raurimont Nix: If you dont see yourself as willing to help others, then I say you need to revise your attitude. This FC is not here to supply you with people to fill your group and help you. It's here for you to join with others, for yourself and them. Give and take.
Zachree Rowlaux: Guys. Stop talking just a second.
Zachree Rowlaux: It's derailing.
Maesluan Zejaire: Thank you.
Zachree Rowlaux: Who's next to make a point, or do you have the floor again, Maes?
Maesluan Zejaire: The idea here is that, particularly in first time runners, fi people could speakup if they are or aren't available, please do. A part, and yes a job, of being in this companyis helping each other. This doesn't necessarily have to be with dungeons, it can be with rping or advice, just try to be participatory. We are not islands, we all need to make sure it comes across that we are not ignoring each other if we are otherwise unable/unwilling to go for a run. Being part of this FC IS your job
Maesluan Zejaire: However you hcoose to do it.
Illith Lith: ((brb Spruce))
Maesluan Zejaire: Does that make sense? Any questions on that?
Maesluan Zejaire: From my understanding here it is simply a matter of trying to, as Kil pointed out, talk to someone directly if you're looking for help, or if a general statement is made and you are not obviously occupied, to speak up and at least say you can/cannot.
Pinny Aerani: At this point I think further commenting on this issue would only cause more arguments, so none here.
Maesluan Zejaire: It's not perfect, but it's a good start.
Thel Dawnbreaker: No guilt trippign either if you ask for help and some simply says no.
Maesluan Zejaire: As Thel said.
Maesluan Zejaire: We all have our own lives. As the fact that not everyone could make it to this meeting shows. SOmetimes we honestly just need a break from the game and still want to talk in the linkshell
Maesluan Zejaire: Say so, do not be ashamed of that, and people need to not resent others if it seems they are continually unavailable. Often it really is timing, even if it seems targetted. From my understanding, no one here absolutely hates another indivudal. If you DO, well... I guess that's a part of problem 1, bring it to an officer adn we'll see what we can do to make it better
Maesluan Zejaire: *They'll see what they can do to make it better.
Zachree Rowlaux: Getting a complaint that the conversation is heading towards the 'accusatory/condecending' vein. Let's reign that in a bit, shall we?
Maesluan Zejaire: Hmmm?
Maesluan Zejaire: A point was brought up, and I'm paraphrasing here, but don't assume someone is going to specifically target someone. If a general statement is made PLEASE DO try to reply. It may seem tedious, but can also result in helping answer future questions from others
Maesluan Zejaire: It can lead to the targetted question. For example: Cibus asks in generall if anyone is up for a Stone Vigil. Azerill pipes in that she's sorry but cannot make it as she's running beastmen. Shy'la pops in later and instead of asking if anyone is available, asks Azerill fi she's still in beastman quests.
Maesluan Zejaire: We're all, hopefully, family here. And I'm sorry if anyone did feel directly attacked, especially if it came from me
Maesluan Zejaire: Is there anyone who wants to chime in with a non-accusatory problem or suggestion on this matter?
Zeruda Ironheart: I feel like we're dwelling on it at this point.
Maesluan Zejaire: I myself have one more point after this, but after that we'll move toopen forums about other issues we have not covered
Raurimont Nix: I agree with Zeruda, it's time to move past this bullet.
Maesluan Zejaire: Very well, last issue on my plate
Maesluan Zejaire: In a very non-pc manner, I am calling this "dick waving." There has been several situations I've come across where a random, idle topic has come up and it quickly turns into an angry "well MY issue is bigger because this" "No MYYY issue is bigger because of this." We're not here to compete. If someone makes a statement that sounds like they're competing, try to not take offense, maybe assume it's an attempt to sympathize (in my issue it usually is, I'm sometimes dumb in phrasing)
Latrans Adustus: (as a minor aside, I'd like to put forth "vag-wagging" as an alternative to "dick waving" )
Maesluan Zejaire: (LOL)
Latrans Adustus: (Not as a replacement, but as an additional option)
Maesluan Zejaire: (*approves*)
Latrans Adustus: It can be hard to get a read on people in those situations, definitely.
Maesluan Zejaire: The idea here is that if the issue is mundane, try to just drop it rather than make it explode into something far too dramatic for the issue that it is.
Maesluan Zejaire: Any questions on that issue?
Maesluan Zejaire: Am I the only one who saw that?
Maesluan Zejaire: Seems like that's that then? Just try not to vag-wag or dick-wave too much, I guess.
Maesluan Zejaire: Open forum time. Seeennnnd me a tell if there's something you want to bring up.
Maesluan Zejaire: Or Zach
Maesluan Zejaire: Zach or me.
Raurimont Nix: Or any officer.
Maesluan Zejaire: At this point, Zach and I are the primary controllers of the conversation so I'd PREFER us, but Illith, Cibus, Thel, and Nix are open too
Latrans Adustus: Actually, I've got a question regarding alts.
Maesluan Zejaire: *meeting not conversation? Not sure if that's a point
Maesluan Zejaire: yes?
Raurimont Nix: Im not. Me no el officero
Maesluan Zejaire: ((NOr am I?))
Raurimont Nix: I mean
Raurimont Nix: You can talk to me if you like
Raurimont Nix: We can be besties and such
Illith Lith: If there is an issue, bottom line, message Zach or Maes for this open forum. If not, don't say anything. Period.
Illith Lith: Whatever is happening.
Maesluan Zejaire: Latrans?
Raurimont Nix: who wants cake
Latrans Adustus: Are we allowed to have alts in the free company? I know some FCs don't mind, some do.
Raurimont Nix: yes
Zachree Rowlaux: Oh yeah. that's no problem.
Maesluan Zejaire: *points to Nanasi on the roster* That's me.
Zachree Rowlaux: I tend to kick at 60 days of inactivity tho
Raurimont Nix: xi just chose to spread herself out of her own whim
Zachree Rowlaux: Which I think is actually pretty generous.
Raurimont Nix: you can throw yours all in here
Latrans Adustus: don't really want to pull Lat, since I like it here, lol
Maesluan Zejaire: Good to hear!
Raurimont Nix: Ill pull lat. My room. 5 minutes.
Latrans Adustus: No. Here. Now.
Maesluan Zejaire: I promise meetings usually aren't this argumentative... I think... this is like the second meeting I've made it to.
Latrans Adustus: I want everyone to see/
Raurimont Nix: Oh okay
Maesluan Zejaire: Ohhhh can my pudding join?
Latrans Adustus: Yes. We'll need pudding, actually.
Maesluan Zejaire: So... anything then?
Raurimont Nix: I vote we all relax over some cake. I have some right here.
Zeruda Ironheart: I have something if nobody else does.. as long as we're laying all our cards on the table.
Illith Lith: Thats not cake.
Maesluan Zejaire: Go ahead, Zeruda
Raurimont Nix: Go ahead Zeruda.
Zachree Rowlaux: I'm going to mention that a lot of us have things we need to work on to be better company members. Myself included. If I do something that bothers you I invite you to talk to me about it, as I genuinely have a desire to solve issues in almost all circumstances. And the only way I can better myself personally is if I know where the issues lie.
Zeruda Ironheart: It's really more of a personal issue, and observance.
Maesluan Zejaire: Go ahead? Or would you rather send it as a tell?
Raurimont Nix: Open forum may be best, it encourages oppen communication.
Raurimont Nix: Open* even.
Latrans Adustus: Oh, actually, I've got a statement too, but it's not super immediate.
Zeruda Ironheart: I've noticed what I consider to be a great deal of self centeredness, particularly when it comes to RP
Maesluan Zejaire: *nods* Just leaving the option there in case she was uncomfortable saying it aloud
Illith Lith: I am going to echo Zach's comment. If you do have an issue with anything i've said, a lot of the time i'm not paying attention enough to really catch what i'm saying. If you don't say anything; even if you think it may make me growly, well, you best say it. I'm not the best with criticism, but I AM an adult; so say it like you mean it or don't. Up to you.
Maesluan Zejaire: What do you mean?
Raurimont Nix: People want to do their RP and only their RP, and show little concern or interest in the ideas of others that don't involve their personal story.
Zeruda Ironheart: basically that
Kilandara Zomerana: Four lines all waiting.
Zeruda Ironheart: or if they do get into other RP, they take any opportunity they can to overlap their own personal RP into it
Zachree Rowlaux: I have no personal stories. XD
Zeruda Ironheart: to the point where it can even take over the RP initially taking place
Zachree Rowlaux: Except my cult one, but it has been shelved for a long time
Zeruda Ironheart: I want to give an example.. but this again goes back to "not wanting to start shit and piss anyone off"
Maesluan Zejaire: Mmmm, that does have a valid point. RPs can vary and if you initiate an RP and someone takes over, beat em down with a stick. And I say that jokingly, but I know of at least one story where it got taken out of the controllers hands. The idea is that the person who starts it is the "DM" so to speak and has the end say on what happens to thes tory. What happens to your character is, howver, always up to you. No one can permanently harm your character but you.
Illith Lith: Yeah. I try to RP when I can make it. I have particular ones sure; but it doesn't happen as much. If I can catch people doing things and it leads into me being able to join, then I will.
Raurimont Nix: I vote say it, pissing people off means you've affected them in some way.
Cibus Alimento: Feel free to speak Zeruda, no matter what. I assume we're all adults here.
Illith Lith: And yes; again this caters into if people DON'T know then it cannot be fixed or dealt with appropriately.
Raurimont Nix: I'm 13 and a half.
Pinny Aerani: I'm 12 and what is this
Pinny Aerani: >_>
Pinny Aerani: <_<
Illith Lith: I'm a zygote.
Thel Dawnbreaker: Nix doesn't count because he is a potato
Raurimont Nix: I AM A BANANA
Raurimont Nix: sorry
Zeruda Ironheart: Just the other day when we were RPing in my room about the Nix criminal deal..
Raurimont Nix: Go ahead Zeruda
Maesluan Zejaire: shhh people.
Maesluan Zejaire: Except Zeruda
Zeruda Ironheart: it came to a point where illith was able to join us.. and she did give some very relevant input into it
Zeruda Ironheart: but i felt like she was making too much of a point of mentioning "difficulty being au-ra"
Latrans Adustus: (I've got a personal bit to add to this conversation, once we get through the relevant stuff)
Raurimont Nix: Not to belittle your statement, but in defense I think that isnt so much her stealing the scene, as, that really is all her character thinks about atm. So for her to be obsessive about it in public is actually very accurate to how her character would act, rather than story overwriting.
Illith Lith: I just read this; lol. She wasn't even as bad as she was the first night.
Zeruda Ironheart: this is why i was hesitant to bring it up.. i dont want to make it sound like im ripping on her
Illith Lith: I tried to include you and talk to you as well.
Illith Lith: So i'm confused but go on.
Raurimont Nix: No its a valid complaint. I just wanted to shed that light on it. I do understand where you come from though
Zeruda Ironheart: you did, im not saying anything about that
Zeruda Ironheart: thats only one example thats readily in mind for me
Illith Lith: Yeah so I mostly talked about trying to find the story behind Nix.
Illith Lith: I'm going to say that right there; it may be because I use huge emotes?
Illith Lith: I get that a lot that its hard to follow.
Maesluan Zejaire: Hm, this isn't something I know very well unfortunately. I mentioned the only tip I can give. You, as the owner of the RP, have the end say of wht goes on.
Pinny Aerani: Sounds like an issue of happenstance, to be honest. We did just have a bunch of members swapping races and still figuring out how to be.
Pinny Aerani: I hope that didn't sound rude, Zeruda.
Zeruda Ironheart: im probably the one being rude
Maesluan Zejaire: Bad timing, so to speak, and I disagree. Its a concern you had. It's not something we can directly address at the moment as the issue has passed HOWEVER
Pinny Aerani: It's better to get what you perceive as issues out there and addressed rather than sit on them uncertain.
Zachree Rowlaux: No Zeruda, it's fine. You had an obseravation, and I think it is fair that you share it. I'd hate for members to be too apprehensive to bring up anything that is bothering them.
Zachree Rowlaux: Someone being bothered is just that.
Maesluan Zejaire: in the future, if you feel someone is being overzealous in their personal situation, ask them to tone down a little. We can have some issues/internal complaints be left just that, internal, untyped.
Zeruda Ironheart: i dont want you to think im calling you out, illith. you did contribute to that RP well, and in fact gained massive IC respect from Zeruda
Maesluan Zejaire: It was an example. Like, and this may be stepping on toes so pardon this, Faey and the goo.
Illith Lith: I dunno, I see it like this. That RP was the first time Illith actually LEFT her house/Zach's house to be around the other members.
Illith Lith: It makes it seem I cannot RP her the way I want.
Illith Lith: She isn't happy; no. She will make note of it. But I don't think I went over the top since the situation moved on quite quickly as that wasn't the basis why we were RPing there to begin with.
Maesluan Zejaire: I understand what you mean, I do want to say that. I cannot help that issue in the past, but my suggestion in the future is to make a comment to pull it back
Maesluan Zejaire: I will go ahead and say that if you wish to leave, now you may. Anyone who still has something they want to bring up may stick around. I will be here for a bit longer.
Latrans Adustus: I've got one thing, real quick.
Maesluan Zejaire: Yes?
Kilandara Zomerana: I'm still here, gonna just hit the retainers.
Latrans Adustus: I want to point out that Lat-the-Character is an ass. He's irreverent and finds it impossible to take most things seriously and will make fun of things he doesn't understand in an attempt to deal with them.
Latrans Adustus: He's not super respectful.
Latrans Adustus: But me, Lat-the-Dude, I want to be the opposite. I want to be super respectful.
Latrans Adustus: So if I'm ever interacting with any of you and you don't think it's fun, or you feel like I'm mocking you or your scene, or like I'm making fun of you, please, let me know!
Latrans Adustus: Just send me a polite OOC tell and I'll either cut it the hell out and make him behave more constructively, or find an excuse to be an ass elsewhere.
Raurimont Nix: Same goes for Xi guys, IC Xi is a shite. OOC she's a very nice woman who will understand if you say stop.
Maesluan Zejaire: If it helps, a lot of us are aware there is a bit fo ooc/ic difference, but it does help to know. I tend ot send apologies out every so often because my alt, Nanasi, is a bit forceful in personality.
Latrans Adustus: Yes, 100%
Pinny Aerani: Yeah, that's an issue I had to help deal with in the past: There's a difference between IC and OOC.
Illith Lith: Indeed.
Latrans Adustus: Lat's a monster. Xi is much, much the same, and when they're together, it's often worse.
Raurimont Nix: Lat you misspelled better
Latrans Adustus: But we're both 100% about being involved and not ruining other people's fun. So just let either of us know, politely, and we'll both chill the heck out.
Illith Lith: Illith IC was worse. Zach helped her 'loosen' up. BUT she isn't the most approachable of Lalafell. Which is intented since so many tend to not do the IC thing and look past them. She was raised in a very rich, notable family and can and will revert back to snooty butts.
Raurimont Nix: ah that sun filled day whe iliette and Nix hunted Xi down the streets of Uldah while a very confused Lat showed up late to the odd pesudo mugging.
Kilandara Zomerana: I just wanna point out, Kil's a total IC racist. I hope you guys realize I'm not >.>
Latrans Adustus: He just wanted to be someone's rival! How DARE people pay more attention to his girlfriend than him!
Pinny Aerani: But Kil's GF was a miqo'te. Dun dun duuuunnnn
Illith Lith: Illith can also be; but she's..."gotten better". Just don't get her drunk.
Kilandara Zomerana: She was racist to Megumi. SHEESH.
Latrans Adustus: Also, it's unrelated, but right now, I feel like I'm getting a lapdance.
Illith Lith: She may just start talking like her dad.
Raurimont Nix: racist on a case to case basis
Illith Lith: And he hates Miqo'te and Refugee scum.
Maesluan Zejaire: Eh, Nanasi is forceful but damn Maes is just polite and formal.... I think except the fact that he puts everyone on the same scale (until they're friends) he's fine...
Latrans Adustus: MORE FOR THE PILE!
Raurimont Nix: No, now youre getting a lapdance
Pinny Aerani: I'm bad at making IC personas different from my OOC persona, so Pinny is essentially myself >_>
Pinny Aerani: Except I'm not really a dragon-girl
Kilandara Zomerana: NO. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.
Latrans Adustus: YOU'RE RUINING MY IMMERSION, PINNY
Illith Lith: There are a few things I share with Illith IC; but she is usually very well mannered.